May I just comment on that Oddy? In the 2000 Gns the going was good and he was beaten a nose. He hated firmness in the ground and in the Irish 2000 Gns the going was actually firm. Most trainers would not run their horses on ground their horse hates, yet New Approach was again subjected to it on his first run after a set back and suffered his only defeat beyond a mile. I would venture to say that had the going in the mile races had some juice in it, NA would have reversed that form with Henry.Reminds me of a few seasons ago where New Approach was a wonderful Derby winner but couldn't live with Henrythenavigator over a mile (much to the detriment of my wallet
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Frankel's Form
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May I just comment on that Oddy? In the 2000 Gns the going was good and he was beaten a nose. He hated firmness in the ground and in the Irish 2000 Gns the going was actually firm. Most trainers would not run their horses on ground their horse hates, yet New Approach was again subjected to it on his first run after a set back and suffered his only defeat beyond a mile. I would venture to say that had the going in the mile races had some juice in it, NA would have reversed that form with Henry.
Arkle Supreme would love that Ron. He really admired the horse.
New Approach beat Henry as a 2YO on soft over 7F Ron. But he did also win handsomely on Gd/Fm as a 2YO in the National Stakes so I'm not sure he hated the ground? Maybe just not as effective? Certainly at Newmarket it was Good racing ground and for me that showed Henry had the deadlier turn of foot over a mile 
HTN without doubt a better miler than NA no question what so ever it is FACT - he won the Guineas and Irish Guineas and another 2 Group ones. New Approach 0/2 over a mile - regardless of ground conditions Henry beat him both times and there was NO way New Approach didn't act on the ground at Newmarket so Bolger can shove that excuse up his scrawny little arse.
Despite winning the Coventry at two HTN was always going to make in to a better 3yo. O'Brien ****ing mucked up some of his campaign as well he should have never run in France and the way he was ridden "to see if he could get home" in the BC Classic was outrageous.
Despite winning the Coventry at two HTN was always going to make in to a better 3yo. O'Brien ****ing mucked up some of his campaign as well he should have never run in France and the way he was ridden "to see if he could get home" in the BC Classic was outrageous.
There's only one piece of form we need to worry about and that's last year's Sussex stakes. Cats, RV and I were rudely interrupted yesterday at York by someone who knows more about horse racing than Patrick Moore knows about astronomy. He told us that Canford Cliffs was one of the greatest race horses ever so that will do for me and i know RV will agree........
Dan: How is he? Hope he is well. Long time no see, but do hear him on the radio now and again..................
It was his cousin from yorkshire I think - honestly it was bloody hilarious. One minue Cats, RV, my mate and I were wondering what would have happened had Sea the Stars raced Frankel (not to be repeated on here of course) and the next minute this absolute bell end started sticking his nose in. Makes me laugh really - all I said was that Frankel's connections used pace makers and Oxx never and that was it. You'd have thoguht I'd said Frankel was a glorified selling plater the way he started banging on about it!
Starkey I am sitting here laughing my head off still errrr I don't mean to butt in has got me buckled 
. He kept apologising to his bird as well ****ing priceless.
errrr I don't mean to butt in has got me buckled . He kept apologising to his bird as well ****ing priceless.
Starkey I am sitting here laughing my head off still
She was class - looked about as comfortable as someone on death row when he started going on. I'm guessing it wasn't a one off. You can imagine people talking about politics at a party and he'd turn around and say "Sorry mate but you're wrong - Sarah Palin was the best Vice president America never had"......
Before yesterday's race I'd agree about the form of the 2011 Sussex. I wasn't disputing that Canford Cliffs was a good horse but to interrupt a conversation in a pub to say, with some force actually, that he was one of the greatest horses of all time is fanciful in the extreme. In fairness I think it was a "you had to be there" moment.
We didn't hold back when he mentioned Canford was one of the best horses of all time
we all fired in and as Starkey's pal said Cats looked as if he was dying to piss himself laughing.
we all fired in and as Starkey's pal said Cats looked as if he was dying to piss himself laughing.
Good Evening, redcgull.
Yes, I believe that Frankel and Brigadier Gerard are very close in ability- and are both great horses.
In a way, comparisons are odious, owing to the 'generation gap' and in essence aren't necessary anyway. We should just enjoy them for what they are.
Even if Frankel were to lose a race before he retires, then that shouldn't devalue his achievements.
I always remember what the Scout (Daily Express) said in 1966 after Flyingbolt had finished third to Salmon Spray in The Champion Hurdle- after winning the Champion Two Mile Chase at the same meeting. If Flyingbolt hadn't jumped "far too big" at all his hurdles, he probably would have won. Yet, as the Scout said, Flyingbolt was a great horse and his wonderful effort "needs no excuse."
That struck a chord with me. So if Frankel were to lose, say over 10 or 12 furlongs, then that wouldn't devalue him. Likewise he needs no excuse.
I would say, definitely a better miler on firm going, no question
On good going - just - by a nose
With any juice in the ground - definitely NA, despite NA clearly needing further and a mile clearly being Henry's best distance.
New Approach beat Henry as a 2YO on soft over 7F Ron. But he did also win handsomely on Gd/Fm as a 2YO in the National Stakes so I'm not sure he hated the ground? Maybe just not as effective? Certainly at Newmarket it was Good racing ground and for me that showed Henry had the deadlier turn of foot over a mile
Hardly won handsomely Oddy. Comfortably, by under 2l, with the second being eased. Something had to win. Have you looked at the form of the horses he beat in that race? He won despite the ground because he was just in a different league.
NA was not happy on ground any firmer than good. If he had been kept off ground firmer than good he would have had just the one defeat, that being by a specialist miler in the 2000 Gns - by a nose. Mill Reef was beaten 3l in his 2000 Gns.
New Approach is probably the most underrated (or more accurately, unappreciated) racehorses of the modern era. That is in part due to what might be referred to as his trainer's antics but maybe more to do with his sweetheart in Greenford.