FPP to take full control

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
wearside wanderer II said:
This one




“Today I spoke to a FD at a company that does business with the club OUR club.
He pointed out that if the fans demand their money back on missed games it will leave the club in a precarious place, so this is not an abuse page or a place to vent your anger.
This post is for the fans who want to help and financially support the club.
I have put this post up knowing it will get abuse, BUT it may appeal to fans like me who don't mind SUPPORTING the club financially, as the CLUB needs our help.
NOW if you do not agree with me fine, but please at least be civil and courteous.
NONE OF THE MONEY GOES TO SD AND CM”
Click to expand...

I've absolutely no idea what he's talking about but there's no need for a ban ffs ....

... some of the pro-wums post things much worse tbh.

Once your username becomes too well known you're doomed on that forum.
 
Smug in Boots said:
I've absolutely no idea what he's talking about but there's no need for a ban ffs ....

... some of the pro-wums post things much worse tbh.

Once your username becomes too well known you're doomed on that forum.
Click to expand...
I certainly know what you mean
It not worthy of a ban but he’s missing a pork pie from his picnic basket imo
 
  • Like
Reactions: Smug in Boots
wearside wanderer II said:
This one




“Today I spoke to a FD at a company that does business with the club OUR club.
He pointed out that if the fans demand their money back on missed games it will leave the club in a precarious place, so this is not an abuse page or a place to vent your anger.
This post is for the fans who want to help and financially support the club.
I have put this post up knowing it will get abuse, BUT it may appeal to fans like me who don't mind SUPPORTING the club financially, as the CLUB needs our help.
NOW if you do not agree with me fine, but please at least be civil and courteous.
NONE OF THE MONEY GOES TO SD AND CM”
Click to expand...

Thank you.
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
It's interesting to see the figures, although (and I accept without having the financials it would be best impossible to say) I do wonder what a fair selling price would be. He spent £12m, and he says the £9m went in and hadn't been used (if we believe him). Then there's this extra £6m, but I wonder whether this genuinely increases the value or whether it's just him having to spend to cover his own mistakes (for example wasting money on Grigg, does that transfer fee and resultant high wages really add value to the club?). I don't see how he can reasonably expect to get the vast majority of what he put in back, seeing as we've made no progress on the pitch, have no parachute payments to come, no players worth anything significant etc. For the club to have anything like held it's value he'll have had to have done really well on the cost cutting side. You'd definitely hope he'd sell if he gets £25m (and the FPP loan is left for him to repay), from what we know until the accounts come out it sounds about right.

In terms of the asking price there's nothing official in terms of Stewart Donald being quoted as saying he wants £40m, but more than one consortium linked has mentioned that figure or thereabouts, whether to papers or others. The only stuff in the papers is things like this https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...id-to-seek-52-million-in-u-k-soccer-team-sale where the people stating it haven't wanted their identities made known but its accurate, according to more than one interested party
Click to expand...

The value of something is whatever someone else is prepared to pay for it. That Bloomberg article says “up to £40m”. These deals are normally presented as a valuation range and it could easily mean £25m to £40m or £35m to £40m. Who knows - but saying that you are looking for a price of up to £40m is not the same as saying that you are asking for £40m.

Football clubs are very hard to value because most of them always lose money and other deal info is hard to find. As seen with SD purchase of SAFC the headline price, even if you know it, is less than half the real picture. How much debt, cash, length of key player contracts, etc. It’s not easy.

All we do know is that a £28m sale price is enough for FPP to be paid back and for SD to walk away with the original money that he put in. His £6m loan and then the initial equity.

Does he deserve not to make a loss? Well the club was losing a huge amount of money when he came in. Although cost-cutting is the easy bit, growing a business is not.

Personally I don’t see why anyone would offer over £30m given the situation and how much investment in the playing squad is needed. Even to offer that much would only be to get the deal done quickly by someone who had money to spare.

That is why FPP are happy to wait it out in my view. Their loan is not really at risk, time is on their side. I don’t know the exact terms of the loan and how it converts to equity, but at a guess it will be something like 51% with an option to buy the rest at the same value, ie £19m or something. Which leaves just enough for Madrox to pay back SD his loan and leave it with the same equity that it started with. So that is the worse case for SD, perhaps, to hand over the keys to FPP.

This is probably why SD can dig his heels in looking for another buyer. Any other buyer has to bid enough for the club to be able to pay back FPP as well. He probably doesn’t have to accept a bid that forces him to take a loss, as the FPP deal provides a floor for him. I might be wrong about the 51% though, so maybe it is lower than that, but there will be a floor valuation of some kind.

So all that is happening is that SD is looking for someone to outbid FPP, and clearly failing. What I don’t know is whether there is a timelimit for this and a point at which FPP have to be paid back or handed the club.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Perritts Parrot, makemdan, Sunderlad and 11 others
Bob Cheval said:
The value of something is whatever someone else is prepared to pay for it. That Bloomberg article says “up to £40m”. These deals are normally presented as a valuation range and it could easily mean £25m to £40m or £35m to £40m. Who knows - but saying that you are looking for a price of up to £40m is not the same as saying that you are asking for £40m.

Football clubs are very hard to value because most of them always lose money and other deal info is hard to find. As seen with SD purchase of SAFC the headline price, even if you know it, is less than half the real picture. How much debt, cash, length of key player contracts, etc. It’s not easy.

All we do know is that a £28m sale price is enough for FPP to be paid back and for SD to walk away with the original money that he put in. His £6m loan and then the initial equity.

Does he deserve not to make a loss? Well the club was losing a huge amount of money when he came in. Although cost-cutting is the easy bit, growing a business is not.

Personally I don’t see why anyone would offer over £30m given the situation and how much investment in the playing squad is needed. Even to offer that much would only be to get the deal done quickly by someone who had money to spare.

That is why FPP are happy to wait it out in my view. Their loan is not really at risk, time is on their side. I don’t know the exact terms of the loan and how it converts to equity, but at a guess it will be something like 51% with an option to buy the rest at the same value, ie £19m or something. Which leaves just enough for Madrox to pay back SD his loan and leave it with the same equity that it started with. So that is the worse case for SD, perhaps, to hand over the keys to FPP.

This is probably why SD can dig his heels in looking for another buyer. Any other buyer has to bid enough for the club to be able to pay back FPP as well. He probably doesn’t have to accept a bid that forces him to take a loss, as the FPP deal provides a floor for him. I might be wrong about the 51% though, so maybe it is lower than that, but there will be a floor valuation of some kind.

So all that is happening is that SD is looking for someone to outbid FPP, and clearly failing. What I don’t know is whether there is a timelimit for this and a point at which FPP have to be paid back or handed the club.
Click to expand...

If, as Donald says, he's not touched the £9m loan and it's sitting in an account somewhere, he gives that back to FPP, he'd not need the £28m. He'd only need to sell for £19m to break even. Or am I missing something?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sunderlad, Kittenmittons and DH4
Bob I think one thing that I'd an x factor here is that buying a football club as a separate entity (the 3 in FPP) is not the same as managing the MSD funds they usually administer in terms of personal responsibility and satisfaction. There's a non-financial gain for them that most other investments don't come with.

As for the price, I think it's closer to £20m.

Wackyjacky said:
If, as Donald says, he's not touched the £9m loan and it's sitting in an account somewhere, he gives that back to FPP, he'd not need the £28m. He'd only need to sell for £19m to break even. Or am I missing something?
Click to expand...

I was going to make this point. The money was put into the club but it still exists within it unless Donald has spent it all. If it's still in the club it won't contribute to the purchase price in practical terms, as anyone paying it would effectively be getting it back once they assumed control.
 
Bob Cheval said:
The value of something is whatever someone else is prepared to pay for it. That Bloomberg article says “up to £40m”. These deals are normally presented as a valuation range and it could easily mean £25m to £40m or £35m to £40m. Who knows - but saying that you are looking for a price of up to £40m is not the same as saying that you are asking for £40m.

Football clubs are very hard to value because most of them always lose money and other deal info is hard to find. As seen with SD purchase of SAFC the headline price, even if you know it, is less than half the real picture. How much debt, cash, length of key player contracts, etc. It’s not easy.

All we do know is that a £28m sale price is enough for FPP to be paid back and for SD to walk away with the original money that he put in. His £6m loan and then the initial equity.

Does he deserve not to make a loss? Well the club was losing a huge amount of money when he came in. Although cost-cutting is the easy bit, growing a business is not.

Personally I don’t see why anyone would offer over £30m given the situation and how much investment in the playing squad is needed. Even to offer that much would only be to get the deal done quickly by someone who had money to spare.

That is why FPP are happy to wait it out in my view. Their loan is not really at risk, time is on their side. I don’t know the exact terms of the loan and how it converts to equity, but at a guess it will be something like 51% with an option to buy the rest at the same value, ie £19m or something. Which leaves just enough for Madrox to pay back SD his loan and leave it with the same equity that it started with. So that is the worse case for SD, perhaps, to hand over the keys to FPP.

This is probably why SD can dig his heels in looking for another buyer. Any other buyer has to bid enough for the club to be able to pay back FPP as well. He probably doesn’t have to accept a bid that forces him to take a loss, as the FPP deal provides a floor for him. I might be wrong about the 51% though, so maybe it is lower than that, but there will be a floor valuation of some kind.

So all that is happening is that SD is looking for someone to outbid FPP, and clearly failing. What I don’t know is whether there is a timelimit for this and a point at which FPP have to be paid back or handed the club.
Click to expand...
What I've never been able to understand is why owners put in a 'loan' to the club to run it and expect that money back. Surely being there own company it's down to them to cover the running costs whatever they may be. It would be like buying a Ferrari for 150k and then getting a 50k loan to cover insurance costs, petrol, new tyres, gearbox if it goes etc and then saying actually the car is worth 200k now. I just don't ****ing get it and it pisses me off massively how these arseholes can try and justify it...

We were over 150m in debt before ES sold to these idiots but we weren't really were we because it was mostly money Short put in to cover his piss poor performance so why should the next incumbent have to pay for me being an arsehole and ragging the Ferrari and completely destroying the gearbox! It's my stupidity, I pay for it or sell it for less the cost of a new bastard gearbox! Thankfully ES saw sense and decided to 'wipe' the debt, well ****ing done Mr Short, my bastard hero!

Apologies for jumping in and out of analogies but I'm foaming and I'm done with this **** (I'll still be back when stadiums reopen though :emoticon-0121-angry)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wor Giacchi, Perritts Parrot, Chizno1 and 2 others
Wackyjacky said:
If, as Donald says, he's not touched the £9m loan and it's sitting in an account somewhere, he gives that back to FPP, he'd not need the £28m. He'd only need to sell for £19m to break even. Or am I missing something?
Click to expand...
No - it’s basically the same thing. The £9m is currently with SAFC. So whether he takes it back and gives to FPP and sells for £19m or doesn’t take it back and sells for £28m and gives FPP £9m of it makes no odds for him. But that assumes it is unspent.
 
W
Kittenmittons said:
Bob I think one thing that I'd an x factor here is that buying a football club as a separate entity (the 3 in FPP) is not the same as managing the MSD funds they usually administer in terms of personal responsibility and satisfaction. There's a non-financial gain for them that most other investments don't come with.

As for the price, I think it's closer to £20m.



I was going to make this point. The money was put into the club but it still exists within it unless Donald has spent it all. If it's still in the club it won't contribute to the purchase price in practical terms, as anyone paying it would effectively be getting it back once they assumed control.
Click to expand...
my guess is that the driver behind this is the one of the three who has now retired.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Porterfield73
I'm looking forward to that Chris lad taking over when SD leaves as he has been telling us 12 times a day on social media how not to run a football club so I'm looking forward to a masterclass with Chris and us flying to the champions League final within 5 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: clockstander and Montysoptician
Zidane said:
I'm looking forward to that Chris lad taking over when SD leaves as he has been telling us 12 times a day on social media how not to run a football club so I'm looking forward to a masterclass with Chris and us flying to the champions League final within 5 years.
Click to expand...
Tbf to the lad he's been saying a lot of things about them from day one which a lot of us, me included, didn't want to hear. He has questioned a lot of what they've said, especially with the finances, and hasn't let up and I'll be honest, I'm pleased he has and hasn't given in as he's unmasked a lot of the lies and untruths. So imo fair play to the lad, with his accountancy background he's more abreast of what has gone on than a lot of us and highlights it, fair do's.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kittenmittons, Huds0n, D-K and 2 others
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back