FPP to take full control

[Nads]

I think he can, but the sad truth is likely that it is based on the money 'invested' by him into the club, which I believe based on how he's dealt with us, will be ring-fenced to protect against exactly the scenario you're describing. There's no way he put that money straight into us without protection to use it to pay back FPP if necessary.

And unfortunately I also think you might be understating an apocalyptic scenario and what he could do to alleviate that. The EFL as a whole won't survive if there's no way around the matchday revenues, so I think he'll see it as an easy way to cut spending on the pitch. Because he starts with a nigh on clean slate, I suspect he'll put out a diabolical team if the financial situation is that bad. He only needs to 'find' around £2m in club revenue to pay the players that are currently contracted for 2020, and despite the downturn, he'll easily get that from sponsorship, TV rights and people paying to watch games. I'd peg our wage budget at <£5m in a best case scenario for next year.

And there's no guarantee, if we work against him, that FPP do swoop in, particuarly if the net effect is that we are nowhere near promotion if/when they had to make that decision. I think it's a slippery slope wishing ill on Donald's ownership, because it can only come with the risk that we may be left insolvent with nobody willing to save us.

See, I can see where your logic is in that, but Donald keeping the club surviving, at no cost or loss, in League One, makes no sense on either side.

He’s got the drama/trauma of running a club for no gain whatsoever.

If, and it’s if, the clubs liability is zero and that’s all on Madrox, in a ‘worst case’ does the club sit their debt free, but without funding?

Now, that would be a serious situation in theory, but there would be a massive queue of buyers in it.

 

[Larza]

No mate I may speak to the person again next week when I'm off.if i do i will post any update on here

Can you not break lockdown and go see him now

 

[Larza]

Its looking like the season is gong to be played out, there’s so much happening today, I’ve got a bit of an inside line here but it will hit Sky and BBC sport later I’d imagine.

The fact still remains we are 3 points from second and if we somehow scraped up, then these ****ing chancers have their golden ticket.

In that case we’d grudgingly accept it I guess as being back up at least one league overrides everything.

I’m pleased it will be played out, at least it’s a chance for us.
It’s all about preparing the team properly with a mini pre-season.
What’s the betting we get to the play off final, win and we can’t fkn go!

 

[RIC]

I’m pleased it will be played out, at least it’s a chance for us.
It’s all about preparing the team properly with a mini pre-season.
What’s the betting we get to the play off final, win and we can’t fkn go!

Is this likely? behind closed doors etc?

 

[Nads]

I’m pleased it will be played out, at least it’s a chance for us.
It’s all about preparing the team properly with a mini pre-season.
What’s the betting we get to the play off final, win and we can’t fkn go!

I don’t think I could take the nerves of another Wembley trip mate.

The EFL call is happening as we speak between all member clubs.

I’d imagine a large outdoor screen be plausible by then, with distancing measures, so we could at least have that.

You’re looking 6-8 weeks as a bare minimum for playoffs, if it gets green light.

The only thing stopping it now is the clubs, government has cleared, EFL has offered financial support. It’s down to the members now.

 

[RIC]

Its looking like the season is gong to be played out, there’s so much happening today, I’ve got a bit of an inside line here but it will hit Sky and BBC sport later I’d imagine.

The fact still remains we are 3 points from second and if we somehow scraped up, then these ****ing chancers have their golden ticket.

In that case we’d grudgingly accept it I guess as being back up at least one league overrides everything.

Looks its not agreed at all... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52679614

 

[Nads]

Looks its not agreed at all... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52679614

I never said it was agreed, I said ‘looking likely’.

It still is looking likely. Wasn’t gonna be done on one call it will be over about 2 weeks, but we’ve come from ‘League One and 2 cancelled’ to ‘ongoing and further talks’ in 24 hours mate.

It’s changing by the hour. I’m confident it will be played out.

 

[Larza]

Is this likely? behind closed doors etc?

If EFL and government have sanctioned it then I don’t see why not especially if there is going to be financial support available.

 

[Eye Ball Paul]

Because, in silence, they remain the ‘good guys’ and stand to gain.

For me they are handling this right, assuming they are even still at the table.

I really hope this is the case, in 49 years I have been supporting the club, I have never know bit this toxic.

 

[sheepman]

I never said it was agreed, I said ‘looking likely’.

It still is looking likely. Wasn’t gonna be done on one call it will be over about 2 weeks, but we’ve come from ‘League One and 2 cancelled’ to ‘ongoing and further talks’ in 24 hours mate.

It’s changing by the hour. I’m confident it will be played out.

Apparently it was going to be rubber stamped to end the season L1 and L2 today
but half a dozen L1 clubs have said they want to play it out
However they are not coming up with any solutions as to how to pay for it
Testing alone would cost £5m (according to Championship meeting)
And with no revenue coming in majority of clubs say they can't afford to play behind closed doors
Also the season would now pass end of June when loads of players are out of contract
The longer they wait the more of a mess it is
Would love to see it but
If it is to be played out then there has to be an injection of cash from somewhere

 

[Eye Ball Paul]

Apparently it was going to be rubber stamped to end the season L1 and L2 today
but half a dozen L1 clubs have said they want to play it out
However they are not coming up with any solutions as to how to pay for it
Testing alone would cost £5m (according to Championship meeting)
And with no revenue coming in majority of clubs say they can't afford to play behind closed doors
Also the season would now pass end of June when loads of players are out of contract
The longer they wait the more of a mess it is
Would love to see it but
If it is to be played out then there has to be an injection of cash from somewhere

Simple really, if only 6 teams want to play and all the others refuse, have a mini 6 team tournament with the teams willing to play and that decides which 3 go up

 

[Nads]

Apparently it was going to be rubber stamped to end the season L1 and L2 today
but half a dozen L1 clubs have said they want to play it out
However they are not coming up with any solutions as to how to pay for it
Testing alone would cost £5m (according to Championship meeting)
And with no revenue coming in majority of clubs say they can't afford to play behind closed doors
Also the season would now pass end of June when loads of players are out of contract
The longer they wait the more of a mess it is
Would love to see it but
If it is to be played out then there has to be an injection of cash from somewhere

Yep.

The EFL have said they will cover testing costs, which is a huge chunk of it, but there needs to be a pot to cover salaries etc.

I’d wager between now and Monday there’s talks with the EFL about finding a pot. The total outlay required to take players and staff off furlough and cover testing is around £14.4million, whereas the loss of external revenue for just League One is around £16million.

Looks logical to finish, issue being the smaller clubs simply don’t have the £14.4million up front, and it’s harder to find it than to factor in the loss of incoming.

It’s messy, but if the EFL backed the bottom 2 leagues with around £20million, even less, they’d go with it.

That’s my understanding. Darragh McAnthony is a good person to be pushing for the lower 2 leagues. He’s a man who gets **** done.

Its got to be safe, but if the testing is covered, it categorically is. Arguably safer than not playing and not being tested.

 

[Dave_39]

Apparently it was going to be rubber stamped to end the season L1 and L2 today
but half a dozen L1 clubs have said they want to play it out
However they are not coming up with any solutions as to how to pay for it
Testing alone would cost £5m (according to Championship meeting)
And with no revenue coming in majority of clubs say they can't afford to play behind closed doors
Also the season would now pass end of June when loads of players are out of contract
The longer they wait the more of a mess it is
Would love to see it but
If it is to be played out then there has to be an injection of cash from somewhere

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[sheepman]

Yep.

The EFL have said they will cover testing costs, which is a huge chunk of it, but there needs to be a pot to cover salaries etc.

I’d wager between now and Monday there’s talks with the EFL about finding a pot. The total outlay required to take players and staff off furlough and cover testing is around £14.4million, whereas the loss of external revenue for just League One is around £16million.

Looks logical to finish, issue being the smaller clubs simply don’t have the £14.4million up front, and it’s harder to find it than to factor in the loss of incoming.

It’s messy, but if the EFL backed the bottom 2 leagues with around £20million, even less, they’d go with it.

That’s my understanding. Darragh McAnthony is a good person to be pushing for the lower 2 leagues. He’s a man who gets **** done.

Its got to be safe, but if the testing is covered, it categorically is. Arguably safer than not playing and not being tested.

Reading between the lines I think the EFL had the idea just to write off league one and two but complete the championship
looking to keep the bigger clubs happy and pandering to the Premier. Would make the promotions / relegation's to the Premier a lot cleaner.
I still think league 2 will be cancelled but looks like a few clubs in League one have thrown a spanner in the works.

Mind you if it does return you just know we'll cock it up
Give it a couple of games and we'll be wishing they hadn't bothered

 

[Larza]

Looks like League 2 going the journey

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[Larza]

Definitely gone

League Two clubs vote to end season, but League One teams fail to decide
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52679614

 

[Nads]

There’s little at stake in League 2, other than for Macclesfield who likely go down under PPG.

Reality is they were going to be docked points anyway for their finances.

Our league is way tighter at the top, with 4 into 1 down at bottom, they will want to play out.

It’s the middle road clubs that we will be working on turning before Monday, and if the EFL step up financially it should be done.

 

[sheepman]

There’s little at stake in League 2, other than for Macclesfield who likely go down under PPG.

Reality is they were going to be docked points anyway for their finances.

Our league is way tighter at the top, with 4 into 1 down at bottom, they will want to play out.

It’s the middle road clubs that we will be working on turning before Monday, and if the EFL step up financially it should be done.

Looks like there are two separate groups in league one
One wants to end the season and one wants to play it out.
If they can't agree any idea what the voting regs are.
Premier has to have 75% in favour apparently

 

[Kittenmittons]

See, I can see where your logic is in that, but Donald keeping the club surviving, at no cost or loss, in League One, makes no sense on either side.

He’s got the drama/trauma of running a club for no gain whatsoever.

If, and it’s if, the clubs liability is zero and that’s all on Madrox, in a ‘worst case’ does the club sit their debt free, but without funding?

Now, that would be a serious situation in theory, but there would be a massive queue of buyers in it.

All good points. There's definitely more to think about than finances for Donald, and I'm sure even if he could see a financial recovery in future, he might be tempted to try to cash out rather than risk it. In fact, that's what he's doing now effectively.

On the second point about administration/liability, do you mean in relation to the FPP money? Legally SAFC has no liability for the FPP loan, however in practice, Donald will be able to use SAFC's money to pay off Madrox's debts which would be normal practice (as we have seen, he can also write-off his own liability to pay it back too). He almost certainly also put that money in with the ability to use it to pay off FPP without penalty anyway.

Putting that to one side, if we were to end up in a bad situation because of CV-19, it would also have big repercussions for Madrox because the two are inextricably linked. The problem is that because Madrox can pretty much weasel their way out of their obligations (cancelled their £20m internal debt to us, able to take cash out of the business to pay their £10m FPP loan), in effect, we can be sacrificed if push comes to shove, or Donald could even say '**** it, I'll let them take it' and write off the club for £10m, but to tet there we would have to be losing a significant sum, which causes it's own problems that make us a less attractive investment for anyone.

So it's kind of catch 22. To get to the stage where FPP can exercise their options, the club itself has to be failing to a degree that may well lead down the worst path possible. At that point, we're relying on them taking us on, paying all of our ongoing debts, and financing us getting back up. It's not guaranteed that they would, particularly given their reticence to buy us outright in L1 when we were in a better financial situation.

 

[Nads]

Looks like there are two separate groups in league one
One wants to end the season and one wants to play it out.
If they can't agree any idea what the voting regs are.
Premier has to have 75% in favour apparently

16 from 20 PL is, I understand EFL is a ‘majority’ so that’s 12 in our league.

Don’t quote me on this I’m trying to piece bits together.