So Madrox or Donald/Methyvn took 20m out of a club that wasn't theirs at the time and gave this to Short? Along with a parachute payment? My head spins!!!
FPP to take full control
- Thread starter Whiteleas Wanderer
- Start date
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Yes! Again, very good post.
Debt is an uncomfortable thing for us as individuals, but for big companies, debt is often how you finance the day-to-day activities of your business. Man City have credit facilities with Barclays that give them easy cash flow that - this is critical - never compromises their on-field activities.
Because we have had the reverse of that (all of our working capital has gone to pay off debts, our owners now owe it back) we are left in a position where the on-field activities are always compromised.
As WMS pointed out last week, the fallacy that there were no other bidders is just wrong. Short chose Donald and Methven for a simple reason, because they were prepared to give him money when others weren't.
They aren't investors though. They have loaned money into Madrox that Madrox have put into the club. FPP can turn it into an investment, but right now, they aren't the 'major investors' because they don't own any shares in either us or our controlling company.
That’s about it. Short himself likely lead it as a way of taking a bit back.
Can’t fault him for that, he wrote off a lot more.
That's what boils my piss short is beyond blame in some people's eyes, it was his last awful dicsion for our club in my eyes.
The model can work.
United will come through the Covid crisis as the club with the highest ‘ability to spend’ on the planet.
All they have dropped is matchday revenue which is a drop in ocean to them. Their partners and sponsors literally fight for that space and won’t risk the relationship with penalties.
In perspective, Audi pay United more to sponsor the seats in dugout than we earn in a year. Kenyon built an absolute behemoth of a business which for all the talk you may hear from City or Liverpool fans when they ain’t in CL, is indestructible.
Its not just a super club, it’s a super business. That setup simply cannot work at our level. Even at PL level we couldn’t pull it off as to do it you need worldwide loyalty from fans and partners.
Kenyons vision combined with the glory years and the PL boom all at once, no club will ever get that perfect storm to grow.
Liverpool have done a magnificent job commercially recently but they are dwarved income wise by United.
Liverpool are the only PL club that could dream of financially equalling United but when United were blowing folk away, Liverpool had Sinama Pongole
My beef isn't with Short, thought he was fairly honourable when he left. It's those two parasites!!! Spending money before they've even gotten their little mitts on the club. Thinking whey'hey we've got this for next to nothing, we'll get promoted and the cash out....Happy Days!!! Looks like he may fall on his own sword!
I guess what a few of us are saying is that none of that is possible without Short, who seems to have lasered in on their bid and ensured any other parties were sidelined in favour of the Brothers Grimm.
TBH I've lost patience with putting everything dubious in inverted commas ...
... is it loan/investment, is it in Madrox/club/Donald, is it £20 million/£40 million, etc etc etc.
As you've said the loan can very easily become investment/shares/ownership.
Whatever the case there's more FPP money in the club than anyone else's.
The reality is simple.
They default the loan and take the club for £10million, we have new owners, rich and savvy, which approx £20million saved to go straight into club.
Yes, it’s simplified, yes, would mean short term turbulence, but it’s actually a perfect result for us.
Can Donald find £10million to remove that liability? You’d have to doubt it. No income for club and insurance industry taking an absolute pounding.
It's a serious scenario for Donald.
As you say insurance is a minefield and there's little hope of crowds, season card sales, etc.
I'd also doubt how much income will come in from PPV or whatever.
Would I bother paying to see each game played in silence in a closed SOL, not really sure tbh.
That's true, they do. I understand not caveating everything, it's just that people tend to believe the 'investors' line from CM and it bugs me because it implies FPP are shareholders in the club. One day, maybe, but not yet. I hope they get the chance to exercise that option before Donald sells to someone else.
I'm under the impression that he'd sold his insurance business and now only owned the leasing company.
Its looking like the season is gong to be played out, there’s so much happening today, I’ve got a bit of an inside line here but it will hit Sky and BBC sport later I’d imagine.
The fact still remains we are 3 points from second and if we somehow scraped up, these ****ing chancers have their golden ticket.
In that case we’d grudgingly accept it I guess as being back up at least one league overrides everything.
As things stand FPP might 'inherit' less of a club than they thought ...
... the longer Donald clings on the less it could be worth, incrementally.
I really hope the first paragraph is correct, because what I really can’t get my head around is that if FPP wants the club, then why are they sitting in silence and watching the heart and sole being ripped out of a club with a strong history and massive fan base (which is turning rapidly) and let it slowly rot?
Another possibility is that we scrape up, FPP say 'no thanks' and Donald has to pay the loan back.
Because, in silence, they remain the ‘good guys’ and stand to gain.
For me they are handling this right, assuming they are even still at the table.
Quite.
But any scenario that sees us up is a positive, albeit with glaring facets.
I think he can, but the sad truth is likely that it is based on the money 'invested' by him into the club, which I believe based on how he's dealt with us, will be ring-fenced to protect against exactly the scenario you're describing. There's no way he put that money straight into us without protection to use it to pay back FPP if necessary.
And unfortunately I also think you might be understating an apocalyptic scenario and what he could do to alleviate that. The EFL as a whole won't survive if there's no way around the matchday revenues, so I think he'll see it as an easy way to cut spending on the pitch. Because he starts with a nigh on clean slate, I suspect he'll put out a diabolical team if the financial situation is that bad. He only needs to 'find' around £2m in club revenue to pay the players that are currently contracted for 2020, and despite the downturn, he'll easily get that from sponsorship, TV rights and people paying to watch games. I'd peg our wage budget at <£5m in a best case scenario for next year.
And there's no guarantee, if we work against him, that FPP do swoop in, particuarly if the net effect is that we are nowhere near promotion if/when they had to make that decision. I think it's a slippery slope wishing ill on Donald's ownership, because it can only come with the risk that we may be left insolvent with nobody willing to save us.