Those are my thoughts on it too. Sports and leisure could easily be the redevelopment of the surrounding area just like @Smug in Boots told us FPP wanted to do. I prefer this scenario to the others.
In response to the above I posted the following over the road, Im open for debate but as always over there its just getting shot down....anyways everyones allowed an opinion.. I think we have all took for granted the money that the Americans have invested in the club already. After SD's throw away interview when he said he would just pay the money back to them if he gets the right people to buy the club was just knee jerk at the time and unprofessional. As we know they hold the clubs assets on the charge of failure to pay it back but none of us know what terms need to be met. After the Madrox responses yesterday I would say its not just as easy as paying it back if its not spent as it seems they set the rules and guidelines as they insisted on the right conditions to be met (financially) for their money to be invested into the club. If we are to believe what has been touted about this was after spending circa £1 million on feasibility studies and due diligence on Sunderland, the SOL and surrounding area for potential growth (I do believe this), then this is more than an injection of money, sit back and see what happens. Within the answers yesterday regarding whether Madrox was just a company vehicle for Sunderland Football Club the response was this... “Madrox was indeed created as the vehicle in which to acquire Sunderland AFC. However, it is looking at other investments in the sport and leisure sector to complement this. That was a contributing factor in seeking a wider investment base and this along with the fact that some investors wish the detail of their financial involvement, like many people investing in businesses, to remain private, means that Madrox affairs must remain confidential.” To me now this shows the bigger picture of FPP involvement and shows that this is concerning redevelopment of the SOL surrounding area, (dont shoot me down but an academy facility in Uruguay as mentioned yesterday) and whatever else that needs to happen to get this club hitting again. What else is Madrox going to buy and spend money on? Some people have mentioned that its now going to be used a vehicle to buy Oxford? Really? I know we are all here for the Football but take away all the yes/no answers from SD and CM, the team been ****e and us still in League 1, We have 3 billionaire investers from America which looks to me that the screw is slowly turning to show they want more for their money and just playing a waiting game, we have a very wealthy South american businessman who (as we are told) is going to play a more visible part going forward (yes we will believe this when it happens), we are appointing local football people on the board, I think we have been the most active club in the league with no football been played for 2 months. In a nutshell I think we are going to have to play the long game with this as I think it will turn its just when FPP / Sartori who are the major investors here want results on the pitch for their efforts
Don't understand what all the ****storm is over.. I would expect any new buyer or investor to have unearthed this financial engineering very early in the DD process or if it was done after DD ,be part of or informed of the decision as they had investment in Madrox. If they weren't aware I wouldn't want them to buy the club . The more important change for me is the appointment of a CEO I feel this is the start of a rebuild .. but by who ?
Sorry but I think FPP or any other buyer would be taking on the club alone, rather than Madrox. There are a few workarounds and complications, but generally I'd suggest the intention is that Madrox remains in the gang of 3's hands after any purchase and they get to tidy their affairs up as 'efficiently' as possible. There are also benefits to any buyer doing that with their own company, rather than one that has or had anything to do with these 3 clowns.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! Stunning place to watch footy, but I bet the concourses are light years behind the best grounds.
I wish I hadn't posted the 'nightmare scenario' tbh, I wouldn't want anyone thinking it was anything more than an opinion based on my own thinking. I was just trying to work out what could be the reason for Donald saying things like 'FPP want to invest in me' which I've never heard said in half a century of football. The man has absolutely nothing to offer. I asked myself one question for which I couldn't find an answer, perhaps one of you can ... ... "If Donald was a free agent would any other club want to offer him the job he's been doing at Sunderland?"
And the loan that FPP gave can be converted into shares in Madrox, so they've already got a potential vehicle for acquiring a portion of Madrox. So, even in the long term "loan money, convert to shares, loan more money, convert to more shares, end up owning the whole thing" model, they end up with Madrox, as they do if Donald defaults. It also makes more sense if it was them asking for the obligation to pay SAFC to be removed. I think they'd buy Madrox
It wasn’t dig mate, you’re always upfront about what’s an opinion and what you’ve been told. To the bit in bold. I’ve only just watched STID 1 and I’m up to Boxing Day on 2 both SD and CM know they’ll never get another chance to be at a club our size. League 2 is the highest in my opinion that they could hope for in the future. I’ve got to say though having watched STID I’m more of the opinion that they’re massively out of their depth as opposed to being chancers. I also thought Martin Bain came across well and was up against it with ES wanting to sell and not invest anymore.
I was going to post about this last night when you mentioned it, but got sidetracked because I am in a relevant situation at the mo I suspect the motivation for FPP in 'investing in their management' was actually that they don't know enough about football to come in on day one and smoothly start running a football club. In a standard business deal, it's common to bring over management as part of it, even if you have other plans for the asset. There's a massive advantage to having an existing management team in place running things as they normally would and allowing FPP to gradually understand everything - and I mean all of the nooks and crannies, the bad stuff - that goes on in a football club. It doesn't matter that Donald and co are rubbish, they'll be learning from those mistakes and understanding the day-to-day running of a football club in more detail. That will give them an understanding of exactly who they need to replace Donald in running this for them if they take the plunge. Can they bring in a business contact to run it? Should they go to a football man? Can they even do it themselves? Who needs to be making the key decisions about the football side of things? Do you follow a DoF model? These aren't easy questions to answer for anyone in any business, let alone a trio of people who have probably seen less than 5 non-PL football matches in person It's sort of like a massive extension of due diligence imo. They are watching a crash course in how not to manage a football club, it's fans, and it's finances, and if it looks like a ****show, they get to walk away. If we manage to get into the championship, they can convert to shares and we're in business. The x-factor seems to be Donald selling before they are comfortable, or we achieve promotion.
I did think about this (hence the 'complications') but I suspect that as I said, they're braced to sell to someone who isn't FPP in the near future sadly.
Its the right way to take-over any business .. and I think the above is exactly whats going on.CM has confirmed the club is close to being sold The leaking of the 'debt write off' more than likely from somebody who knows they aren't going to be part of any plans .. its a distraction and an unwanted at that . Too many people emotionally reacting and filling in blanks to meet whatever opinion they hold.
Not sure about some of this mate. In my limited experience,it's more likely that the quality of the management in place is crucially important to any outside investor with no experience of the industry in which they're looking to invest. It really will matter to them if they perceive Donald and co as rubbish. We have been told that they did take independent advice from a football man,widely taken to be Tufty,who may well still be on board with specific advice,and it's certain that they will bring their own people in to steer the ship according to the plan that they devise and report back as necessary,no matter who the day to day executives are. I don't think that the idea of them sitting on the sidelines watching Donald and co gradually **** it up, just so they can get a grasp of how not to do it, holds much water to be honest. These people are used to the best of everything,they can afford the best of everything, and if they're genuinely interested in acquiring us,they won't want Donald hanging around,either now or in the future, if he's not running the thing properly.
I mean, they wouldn't have invested expecting him to **** up, I agree there, that's not what I meant sorry. I think they probably didn't see it as a huge **** up, and in all honesty, I doubt they see our current situation as unexpected given where we were when they put the loan in. The 'best of everything' part is true, I just think they have objectively chosen us (and we're not the best of everything) despite the ability to purchase any team in the land. That does mean some level of adaptation to circumstances, and in this case, I believe that means letting Donald run the club, with no risk to themselves, and if they like what they see from the investment and/or from him, they can have full flexibility to come on board and either shift Donald out, or keep him on. But whatever happens, they have their own knowledge of the situation, not a sales job by a desperate seller. And if he ****s it up that badly, they get to walk away, with no loss.
and maybe they have concluded that after 6-9 months he's not what they need . Your point can support KM's post .. we are all just guessing
"Too many people emotionally reacting and filling in blanks to meet whatever opinion they hold." Isn't that what you've just done ...
Aye, especially with CM. He is a nailed on PR ****er and everything he says is so vague and cynically selective that it could mean anything. That statement last night was 'final straw' territory for me. He has no respect for us and he isn't even trying to hide his contempt.
