Match Day Thread Forever Match Day Thread

[cytrax]

I am not convinced he is the right man and I think he will be gone by Christmas is my opinion, if anyone is interested, but its not wholly unreasonable to give him at least till Christmas now.

Given the vast array of resources at his disposal, we can objectively conclude that he does not appear to be the right man for the job.

Also, dependency on changing a manager used to be that they needed to bring in their own players through transfer windows. But, we are moving away from that model to let a coach focus on training and match day logistics while the transfers are not in his care. To that, I don’t think it’s necessary to wait until the season is destroyed.

Having said that, we obviously have the talent that can go on a reasonable run of good results. So I can see how that team can keep ETH in the job longer than necessary.

 

[Solid Air]

Given the vast array of resources at his disposal, we can objectively conclude that he does not appear to be the right man for the job.

Also, dependency on changing a manager used to be that they needed to bring in their own players through transfer windows. But, we are moving away from that model to let a coach focus on training and match day logistics while the transfers are not in his care. To that, I don’t think it’s necessary to wait until the season is destroyed.

Having said that, we obviously have the talent that can go on a reasonable run of good results. So I can see how that team can keep ETH in the job longer than necessary.

yet end up signing players he has previously managed

 

[cytrax]

yet end up signing players he has previously managed

The manager can have influence, but the system going forward is more of plug-n-play on the coach/manager front, as opposed to wholesale change of players every time a new manager comes in.

I actually don’t see a problem with getting previously managed players, if the technical director agrees with the assessment of the players. Certainly most of those players are no where near as bad as they’ve performed, especially Antony.

 

[Solid Air]

The manager can have influence, but the system going forward is more of plug-n-play on the coach/manager front, as opposed to wholesale change of players every time a new manager comes in.

I actually don’t see a problem with getting previously managed players, if the technical director agrees with the assessment of the players. Certainly most of those players are no where near as bad as they’ve performed, especially Antony.

just from the "optics" it doesn't look good and none of them have made much impression from what i've seen , obviously this will be far less than you and the other Utd posters , and probably more damning is the fact you still seem to have little cohesion when things aren't going your way .

 

[glazerfodder]

Hojlund, Zirkzee and De Ligt seem to be knee-jerk signings. As time goes on (Antony excepted), the others seem to be doing ok, but I get the idea that not many of the first team squad believe ion ETH.

 

[Diego]

Hojlund, Zirkzee and De Ligt seem to be knee-jerk signings. As time goes on (Antony excepted), the others seem to be doing ok, but I get the idea that not many of the first team squad believe ion ETH.

Have to dissagree with most of these.
Hojlund and Zirkzee are both showing signs of being very good strikers, problem is they are both young and Hojlund seems a bit injury prone at the moment.
Antony has decent ability and good speed, his problem is he ihas no right foot and is being played on the wrong wing leaving him with the options of getting forward and then passing back or cutting inside and having a shot (which he is quite good at.
I agree with your De Ligt pick though because he looks very poor in the PL compared to how he has looked in weaker leagues.
The two players that worry me most at the moment are Rashford with his "play when i want" attitude and Bruno who seems to have lost his head and runs round like a wild man.
I think/hope that when we get Shaw back the team will start to improve as a whole. Yes i know that one player shouldn't make a difference but i genuinly believe that he improves the whole left side of the team and Rashford in particular.
Problem is that after past injuries he has come back fat and unfit taking weeks to get up to speed.

 

[cytrax]

Now Shaw is coming to the rescue. Ugarte few weeks ago. A striker a summer ago. Quite frankly, every other solution that we have thrown at the problem in the form of players has failed. We can’t keep the charade of expecting a single player to come in and solve a chronic problem with the system. It is fair to concede that the players not performing are victims of that system, especially Rashford and Antony.

For example, Rashford should have been dropped for his own sake. Persistence of the manager to keep playing him has had a detrimental effect on his overall being.

Antony was also persistently played in a the wrong position every time that it ended up destroying his game.

Overall, ETH is far too stubborn and rigid. He has no dynamism to arrest the bad form.

 

[Diego]

Now Shaw is coming to the rescue. Ugarte few weeks ago. A striker a summer ago. Quite frankly, every other solution that we have thrown at the problem in the form of players has failed. We can’t keep the charade of expecting a single player to come in and solve a chronic problem with the system. It is fair to concede that the players not performing are victims of that system, especially Rashford and Antony.

For example, Rashford should have been dropped for his own sake. Persistence of the manager to keep playing him has had a detrimental effect on his overall being.

Antony was also persistently played in a the wrong position every time that it ended up destroying his game.

Overall, ETH is far too stubborn and rigid. He has no dynamism to arrest the bad form.

Total bollocks mate (apart from the Antony bit which i think was enforced on him because Rashford wanted the left wing).

I know you are advocating for ANOTHER new manager so who would you suggest this time? We have already tried a couple of big names so who do we go for next (Don Carlo would be my pick but thats just a dream).

Just as an aside, name me one PL manager (apart from Pep) who has won 2 trophies in the last 2 seasons.

 

[cytrax]

You’re right, Diego! What am I thinking! We already have the best man for the job. After all, he’s won more trophies than anyone not related to City in the last two years.

Besides, there certainly is no one in the world of football that can do the job.

 

[Diego]

You’re right, Diego! What am I thinking! We already have the best man for the job. After all, he’s won more trophies than anyone not related to City in the last two years.

Besides, there certainly is no one in the world of football that can do the job.

I never said we have the best man for the job, just pointed out that he has achieved more than 20 other premier league managers in the last two years success (trophy) wise.
So tell me who your replacement would be (there are seven who have already failed), i have told you mine.

 

[cytrax]

So tell me who your replacement would be (there are seven who have already failed), i have told you mine.

There are plenty of managers out there. I’m not going to get into the hypothetical scenarios of which manager which only serves to create a case that there is one available. Or even worse, that anyone that takes on the job will naturally fail. I think that’s fallacy from fear of failure that’s crippling us.

 

[Diego]

There are plenty of managers out there. I’m not going to get into the hypothetical scenarios of which manager which only serves to create a case that there is one available. Or even worse, that anyone that takes on the job will naturally fail. I think that’s fallacy from fear of failure that’s crippling us.

Do you not think there is a lack of something very important among the players, something called "personal pride".
The only players i see with any personal pride at the moment are Onana, Martinez, Dalot and youngsters like Mainoo and Garnacho.

Harking back to Fergie days (something i don't really like to do but wish to show what i mean) and comparing them to today we have Bruno as captain, before him we had Maguire.
Think back to old teams, we had Kean as captain but in reality we had eleven captains. At any time in a game someone ****ed up or wasn't pulling their weight another would let him know.
Neville would bollack Schols, Giggs would bollack Kean, Scheimcel would bollack Vidic or Ferdinand.
These were players with personal pride who would not allow others to let them down.
We now have players who see another team mate not giving their all and think "**** it why should i".

We have no leaders in the team and it shows.

 

[Chief]

Feel like a bit of a stuck record for like, the last four or five manager changes but, this is what I think should happen.

Ten Hag stays.

But they make their mind up that he definitely leaves at the end of this season, and they start the proper recruitment process. This should have happened last year but he chucked them a googly with the FA Cup win/performance, which fooled them into thinking there was a tactician in there.

Two things that should not happen;

1, Take on the nearest unemployed manager.

Didn't work with van Gaal, didn't work with Jose, very unlikely it'll work with the likes of Tuchel or Potter, let's be honest. By all means, interview them for the long term job, but don't just throw them in and cross your fingers.

2, Don't take on Ruud as an interim. Just in case he does well, and they decide he's the new manager.
He isn't, or they would have recruited him last season.

We don't want another Ole situation, everyone gets excited after a couple of wins and then it all (inevtitably) goes tits up. If we need a caretaker then he's a candidate, but don't just award him the job off the back of new manager bounce.


We've got to keep ten Hag and, dead man walking or not, whatever, start sniffing around the likes of Ancelotti or Frank etc. To see if they are interested/suitable. Carry out a diligent recruitment process, for once for **** sake.









*3, don't, under any circumstances whatsoever, even think about giving Southgate a call.

 

[Bodinki]

Feel like a bit of a stuck record for like, the last four or five manager changes but, this is what I think should happen.

Ten Hag stays.

But they make their mind up that he definitely leaves at the end of this season, and they start the proper recruitment process. This should have happened last year but he chucked them a googly with the FA Cup win/performance, which fooled them into thinking there was a tactician in there.

Two things that should not happen;

1, Take on the nearest unemployed manager.

Didn't work with van Gal, didn't work with Jose, very unlikely it'll work with the likes of Tuchel or Potter, let's be honest. By all means, interview them for the long term job, but don't just throw them in and cross your fingers.

2, Don't take on Ruud as an interim. Just in case he does well, and they decide he's the new manager.
He isn't, or they would have recruited him last season.

We don't want another Ole situation, everyone gets excited after a couple of wins and then it all (inevtitably) goes tits up. If we need a caretaker then he's a candidate, but don't just award home the job off the back of new manager bounce.


We've got to keep ten Hag and, dead man walking or not, whatever, start sniffing around the likes of Ancelotti or Frank etc. To see if they are interested/suitable. Carry out a diligent recruitment process, for once for **** sake.









*3, don't, under any circumstances whatsoever, even think about giving Southgate a call.

I would say this is sensible, all I would add is that Tuchel is a bloody good manager, and you could do a lot worse. He was at Chelsea at a terrible time, when we were under sanctions, the government decided to "appropriate" the club from our owner and sell us off to a bunch of clowns, and Tuchel was stuck trying to hold the fort.
I'd steer clear of Potter and Southgate like the plague, but you could do a lot worse than appoint old TT. I think he would get something out of your squad.

 

[Chief]

So do I really, but it's whether he's the right man for the current set up.

Will he accept the DoF situation, the working with players they suggest etc.?

I see him more of a manager. This is fine, as long as they let him manage.

If we went down the knee jerk sack and employ the unemployed route, then he's my choice, yes.

 

[glazerfodder]

It begs the question that if Tuchel is that good, then why is he still out of a job. I suspect the answer lies in his reputation for being ´difficult´, however true or otherwise that may be. I suspect INEOS, as a collective management group, would go for someone who is good but pliant, which suggests a younger manager, or someone who they can just let get on with it without any concerns, and that for me is Ancelotti. We should be making overtures now, offering ridiculous sums of money for a managher, doing everything we can to secure his services behind the scenes for when ETH is eventually sacked.

 

[cytrax]

It begs the question that if Tuchel is that good, then why is he still out of a job. I suspect the answer lies in his reputation for being ´difficult´, however true or otherwise that may be. I suspect INEOS, as a collective management group, would go for someone who is good but pliant, which suggests a younger manager, or someone who they can just let get on with it without any concerns, and that for me is Ancelotti. We should be making overtures now, offering ridiculous sums of money for a managher, doing everything we can to secure his services behind the scenes for when ETH is eventually sacked.

His temperament is concerning. He strikes me as a guy that will self implode when things are going sideways like Mourinho.

Right now, it looks like Potter or Tuchel. I would pick Potter. We need a manager that can rebuild the culture and I firmly believe that the setup right now will serve him well. An egomaniac is not ideal.

 

[Diego]

His temperament is concerning. He strikes me as a guy that will self implode when things are going sideways like Mourinho.

Right now, it looks like Potter or Tuchel. I would pick Potter. We need a manager that can rebuild the culture and I firmly believe that the setup right now will serve him well. An egomaniac is not ideal.

I have said this before but i think we need a manager who will install/enforce something called "personal pride" into the players.
How many times over the last many years have you seen players heads drop and arms start waving?
I go back to a story told by Giggs, Neville and Scholes in different interviews and it goes like this.

Half time, 3-0 down to Spurs. The players are sitting in the dressing room and saying "the gaffer will go mad", When Fergie walked in he got a cup of tea off the trolly and went into a side room leaving them to look at each other.
When the buzzer went for second half he walked out, put his cup down and held the door open with the words "****ing sort it".
we won 3-5.
That shows an example of man management because he left them to stew in what might be and collectively sort it.
Would probably not work again but was effective at the time.

We need a man manager not a simple manager, we all know we have many players with the talent, just not enough players with the will/mentality.

 

[glazerfodder]

Some media reports today that Tuchel is being considered by the FA for the England job - perhaps the ideal place for him - no owners, no transfer hassles, but will they go for a German, or is he waiting in the wings for the Germany job now Klopp has sold out to Red Bull.

 

[cytrax]

I have said this before but i think we need a manager who will install/enforce something called "personal pride" into the players.
How many times over the last many years have you seen players heads drop and arms start waving?
I go back to a story told by Giggs, Neville and Scholes in different interviews and it goes like this.

Half time, 3-0 down to Spurs. The players are sitting in the dressing room and saying "the gaffer will go mad", When Fergie walked in he got a cup of tea off the trolly and went into a side room leaving them to look at each other.
When the buzzer went for second half he walked out, put his cup down and held the door open with the words "****ing sort it".
we won 3-5.
That shows an example of man management because he left them to stew in what might be and collectively sort it.
Would probably not work again but was effective at the time.

We need a man manager not a simple manager, we all know we have many players with the talent, just not enough players with the will/mentality.

I mean, if this is the kind of character we need, then someone like Potter wouldn’t qualify. Fergie-like manager is just so extremely rare. He could turn stones into diamonds because just hated losing so much.

I actually loved it that we went for ETH because he’s not a softie. He has strong character, but he’s terrible at man management. We need a balance of fearful and father-figure to deliver the ultimate leadership for these lost players.