Flagging…

[Ernie Shackleton]

As someone who went to the game today, the post here about the pride flag was the first thing that notified me it was even there as I personally pay very little attention to the corner flag and neither does it upset me being different for once.

Would hardly say it’s being rammed down any throats.

To be fair you'd notice if a corner flag was being rammed down your throat.


Pride flag atop or otherwise.

 

[Steven Toast]

I go to football to watch football not to have stuff rammed down my throat or stuffed in my face. I also happen to believe that this stuff, same with such as BLM, kick it out, etc only serves to highlight differences and even divide. It also fuels or kowtows to certain people or groups with their often divisive personal agendas.Stop with the stupid slogans and symbols, just get on with being inclusive etc. .

"It only serves to highlight differences".

Yep, exactly. That's exactly why we do it. Because the LGBT community has come under such horrendous abuse, some appalling tragedies and non-sensical legal decisions, we want people to treat us the same as every other human being. Pride is about being able to express who you are, in the same way that people wear a poppy to express respect for fallen soldiers or people of the Muslim faith wearing a Burqa to honour their religion. It isn't a political thing, like BLM (who also make a very good case), it's an identity that we want to be and are proud of. The rainbow flag is, for me, the epitome of "don't let the bastards grind you down".

To you, it might be a "stupid symbol", but to millions of people worldwide it's a sign of progress, of freedom and acceptance, qualities which many find hard to come by as they grow up and try and discover who they really are. Pride parades are a celebration of that journey, that togetherness in the community and the freedom to be who you are.

In a perfect world, Pride wouldn't exist. Neither would JSO, BLM or Kick it Out. They only exist because they have to, because if they didn't, nothing would change. The world isn't seeing more Pride parades because society has naturally shifted, society has shifted because of the activism that shifted it. Some cis people get a bee in their bonnet about it, but honestly, that's kind of the point because if you didn't get cross with it, you wouldn't complain about it and the issue wouldn't get spoken about nearly as much.

Society, on the whole, isn't fully inclusive. It isn't. It's better now than it was, but it's far from perfect. When a celeb coming out as gay isn't front page news, or when anything to do with being non-cis isn't prefixed by the word "woke", or when trans people aren't viewed as monsters, you'll know we're getting closer.

Football as a sport, indeed most sports, support these views and issues and want to show solidarity, which is fantastic progress and must be a real boon to those lads who are non-cis in a sport that rarely has openly gay players. To keep football as football, you would have to ban all of the sponsors as well, some of the goal celebrations, even some of the players tattoos I imagine carry messages that are non-football related. When we gave the money from the Hatayspor game to the victims of the Earthquake in Turkey/Syria, was that football related? Or, perhaps it's much easier to have sport play a supporting role in contemporary issues and allow some of the considerable wealth and platforming that it carries to help people affected by them.

I'm sorry if once a year is an issue being "rammed down your throat", the odd press release, pride corner flag or rainbow laces on boots isn't really dominating the landscape is it?

 

[Ric Glasgow]

"It only serves to highlight differences".

Yep, exactly. That's exactly why we do it. Because the LGBT community has come under such horrendous abuse, some appalling tragedies and non-sensical legal decisions, we want people to treat us the same as every other human being. Pride is about being able to express who you are, in the same way that people wear a poppy to express respect for fallen soldiers or people of the Muslim faith wearing a Burqa to honour their religion. It isn't a political thing, like BLM (who also make a very good case), it's an identity that we want to be and are proud of. The rainbow flag is, for me, the epitome of "don't let the bastards grind you down".

To you, it might be a "stupid symbol", but to millions of people worldwide it's a sign of progress, of freedom and acceptance, qualities which many find hard to come by as they grow up and try and discover who they really are. Pride parades are a celebration of that journey, that togetherness in the community and the freedom to be who you are.

In a perfect world, Pride wouldn't exist. Neither would JSO, BLM or Kick it Out. They only exist because they have to, because if they didn't, nothing would change. The world isn't seeing more Pride parades because society has naturally shifted, society has shifted because of the activism that shifted it. Some cis people get a bee in their bonnet about it, but honestly, that's kind of the point because if you didn't get cross with it, you wouldn't complain about it and the issue wouldn't get spoken about nearly as much.

Society, on the whole, isn't fully inclusive. It isn't. It's better now than it was, but it's far from perfect. When a celeb coming out as gay isn't front page news, or when anything to do with being non-cis isn't prefixed by the word "woke", or when trans people aren't viewed as monsters, you'll know we're getting closer.

Football as a sport, indeed most sports, support these views and issues and want to show solidarity, which is fantastic progress and must be a real boon to those lads who are non-cis in a sport that rarely has openly gay players. To keep football as football, you would have to ban all of the sponsors as well, some of the goal celebrations, even some of the players tattoos I imagine carry messages that are non-football related. When we gave the money from the Hatayspor game to the victims of the Earthquake in Turkey/Syria, was that football related? Or, perhaps it's much easier to have sport play a supporting role in contemporary issues and allow some of the considerable wealth and platforming that it carries to help people affected by them.

I'm sorry if once a year is an issue being "rammed down your throat", the odd press release, pride corner flag or rainbow laces on boots isn't really dominating the landscape is it?

I just wanted to put a little additional content to this as a Father of a gay Daughter(I don't know if that's the appropriate word,if it isn't,I apologise).

After reading through the previous comments and the arguments that ensued I thought I'd ask her what she thought?

I took a brief mental note of her answers and these are her thoughts..

She used to go to the occasional pride event but doesn't bother any more,she thinks it used to be a good thing and very much so in Football because a lot of male players are scared to 'come out' because of the reaction.

She doesn't celebrate or care about it anymore because she feels that the trans people and non binary have pushed people out of their own community and a lot of her friends feel the same way.

She did feel it was important because gay people didn't have adoption or marriage rights in the past and she also felt it important to stand up for the rights of people in the numerous countries where a death penalty can be given out for being gay.

To underline this,I'd like to point out that my Daughter feels very lucky to have such a supportive family,we all love her to bits,why wouldn't we?.She more or less said that some parents don't and never will understand which is awful for the people subject to that..

Just to add,I've read your post and I understand it,you always have been a very clear and forthright poster and I for one appreciate your posts.As for GFAW,I've took no offence,maybe it didn't come across very well to some people but I'm fairly sure he didn't say what he said to cause offence to anyone.Maybe he'll read your post and see where you are coming from...I have.

 

[Steven Toast]

I just wanted to put a little additional content to this as a Father of a gay Daughter(I don't know if that's the appropriate word,if it isn't,I apologise).

After reading through the previous comments and the arguments that ensued I thought I'd ask her what she thought?

I took a brief mental note of her answers and these are her thoughts..

She used to go to the occasional pride event but doesn't bother any more,she thinks it used to be a good thing and very much so in Football because a lot of male players are scared to 'come out' because of the reaction.

She doesn't celebrate or care about it anymore because she feels that the trans people and non binary have pushed people out of their own community and a lot of her friends feel the same way.

She did feel it was important because gay people didn't have adoption or marriage rights in the past and she also felt it important to stand up for the rights of people in the numerous countries where a death penalty can be given out for being gay.

To underline this,I'd like to point out that my Daughter feels very lucky to have such a supportive family,we all love her to bits,why wouldn't we?.She more or less said that some parents don't and never will understand which is awful for the people subject to that..

Just to add,I've read your post and I understand it,you always have been a very clear and forthright poster and I for one appreciate your posts.As for GFAW,I've took no offence,maybe it didn't come across very well to some people but I'm fairly sure he didn't say what he said to cause offence to anyone.Maybe he'll read your post and see where you are coming from...I have.

Thank you, that really means a lot and yeah, your daughter is spot on. She is very lucky to have such supportive parents, as am I, but I know of many who aren't so fortunate and as such have either been abused or cut off entirely from their families/social groups because of who they are and that's why I feel so strongly about Pride.

On the trans issue, I think it's circular. When trans rights movements were burgeoning, they came under enormous scrutiny and where many knelt or begrudgingly accepted it, they chose to fight, which only escalated the issue and caused some rather extreme viewpoints to come to the fore, which typically were then applied as an umbrella term across that particular community. So the more criticism it got, the harder trans folks pushed back, which then led to bigger criticism and so on. I don't think it dominates pride, but similarly I can understand why it's such a huge concern because there is a lot of stupid misinformation out there at the moment,not helped by media figures making daft remarks like "what is a woman?" or "your generation doesn't know whether it identifies as a toaster" and generally mocking them. It wouldn't be acceptable to do it to LGB people, or people of colour, or faith and it isn't aceptable to trans people either.

And gay is absolutely the word to use! Never worry about what to call somebody, anybody who isn't a massive twat will either understand your concerns, politely ignore it or equally politely correct you.

Anyway, back to transfers.

Oh there aren't any. Okay. Here's a fun film fact.

Ron Lacey, who played Harris in Porridge, was cast by Stephen Spielberg in Raiders of the Lost Ark as the Nazi Agent Arnold Toht because of his "beady eyes". I didn't realise he was later cast as the Bishop of Bath and Wells in Blackadder II. Must've had a thing for evil people!

 

[SydneyTiger14]

I go to football to watch football not to have stuff rammed down my throat or stuffed in my face. I also happen to believe that this stuff, same with such as BLM, kick it out, etc only serves to highlight differences and even divide. It also fuels or kowtows to certain people or groups with their often divisive personal agendas.Stop with the stupid slogans and symbols, just get on with being inclusive etc. .

This is one of the worst posts I've seen on here and that's saying a lot. Give your head a shake.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

"It only serves to highlight differences".

Yep, exactly. That's exactly why we do it. Because the LGBT community has come under such horrendous abuse, some appalling tragedies and non-sensical legal decisions, we want people to treat us the same as every other human being. Pride is about being able to express who you are, in the same way that people wear a poppy to express respect for fallen soldiers or people of the Muslim faith wearing a Burqa to honour their religion. It isn't a political thing, like BLM (who also make a very good case), it's an identity that we want to be and are proud of. The rainbow flag is, for me, the epitome of "don't let the bastards grind you down".

To you, it might be a "stupid symbol", but to millions of people worldwide it's a sign of progress, of freedom and acceptance, qualities which many find hard to come by as they grow up and try and discover who they really are. Pride parades are a celebration of that journey, that togetherness in the community and the freedom to be who you are.

In a perfect world, Pride wouldn't exist. Neither would JSO, BLM or Kick it Out. They only exist because they have to, because if they didn't, nothing would change. The world isn't seeing more Pride parades because society has naturally shifted, society has shifted because of the activism that shifted it. Some cis people get a bee in their bonnet about it, but honestly, that's kind of the point because if you didn't get cross with it, you wouldn't complain about it and the issue wouldn't get spoken about nearly as much.

Society, on the whole, isn't fully inclusive. It isn't. It's better now than it was, but it's far from perfect. When a celeb coming out as gay isn't front page news, or when anything to do with being non-cis isn't prefixed by the word "woke", or when trans people aren't viewed as monsters, you'll know we're getting closer.

Football as a sport, indeed most sports, support these views and issues and want to show solidarity, which is fantastic progress and must be a real boon to those lads who are non-cis in a sport that rarely has openly gay players. To keep football as football, you would have to ban all of the sponsors as well, some of the goal celebrations, even some of the players tattoos I imagine carry messages that are non-football related. When we gave the money from the Hatayspor game to the victims of the Earthquake in Turkey/Syria, was that football related? Or, perhaps it's much easier to have sport play a supporting role in contemporary issues and allow some of the considerable wealth and platforming that it carries to help people affected by them.

I'm sorry if once a year is an issue being "rammed down your throat", the odd press release, pride corner flag or rainbow laces on boots isn't really dominating the landscape is it?

This is one of the best posts I've seen on here. Spot on.

 

[jhe10]

I go to football to watch football not to have stuff rammed down my throat or stuffed in my face. I also happen to believe that this stuff, same with such as BLM, kick it out, etc only serves to highlight differences and even divide. It also fuels or kowtows to certain people or groups with their often divisive personal agendas.Stop with the stupid slogans and symbols, just get on with being inclusive etc. .

Blimey,are the gays ramming things down your throat?
https://www.theonion.com/why-do-all-these-homosexuals-keep-sucking-my-cock-1819583529

 

[1MoreAgain]

Blimey,are the gays ramming things down your throat?
https://www.theonion.com/why-do-all-these-homosexuals-keep-sucking-my-cock-1819583529

You're gonna go down well.

 

[Gone For A Walk]

I said that was it for me (on the subject) but I see that others have continued & expanded the discussion.
Yes, it's a topic that's close to home for me too.
Ric, your daughters views appear close to my reasoning.
ST, yours is one take on it all. There are other takes, not just being my view but being the view of very many within the gay+ community. Surely you know that.
For me, Douglas Murray summed it up very well in a fairly recent article he did; sorry, I don't have it to hand (but a quick google will readily bring you to his well articulated views). He is gay, something I didn't realise until I read the article!
I happened to be with a gay couple at an event a couple of weeks back. Lovely day. Their words, they would not be seen dead at a Pride event. Reasoning, same as Douglas Murrays.
If you call me a bigot or tell me to 'give my head a shake' or whatever, you are effectively saying the same to many gays. Such comments therefore make absolutely no sense whatsoever, and in some cases (obviously not all as demonstrated by 1 or 2 on here) only likely serve to show how ill-informed , even perhaps duped, you are on the topic imo, as are so many of our population.
I'd rather we now left the topic alone on here. I've shared my views, which clearly align with many in the gay+ community itself.

 

[Ric Glasgow]

Blimey,are the gays ramming things down your throat?
https://www.theonion.com/why-do-all-these-homosexuals-keep-sucking-my-cock-1819583529

There might be gays posting on here,there might be people who know and love gay people on here...There are also several women posters!!

Show some respect to everyone...

 

[1MoreAgain]

.

 

[amberman8]

So let me get this straight...wood is leaving cos he is gay and ally has to go home cos his dogs been shot...and we have trans corner flags....just another week at Hull City

 

[SydneyTiger14]

I said that was it for me (on the subject) but I see that others have continued & expanded the discussion.
Yes, it's a topic that's close to home for me too.
Ric, your daughters views appear close to my reasoning.
ST, yours is one take on it all. There are other takes, not just being my view but being the view of very many within the gay+ community. Surely you know that.
For me, Douglas Murray summed it up very well in a fairly recent article he did; sorry, I don't have it to hand (but a quick google will readily bring you to his well articulated views). He is gay, something I didn't realise until I read the article!
I happened to be with a gay couple at an event a couple of weeks back. Lovely day. Their words, they would not be seen dead at a Pride event. Reasoning, same as Douglas Murrays.
If you call me a bigot or tell me to 'give my head a shake' or whatever, you are effectively saying the same to many gays. Such comments therefore make absolutely no sense whatsoever, and in some cases (obviously not all as demonstrated by 1 or 2 on here) only likely serve to show how ill-informed , even perhaps duped, you are on the topic imo, as are so many of our population.
I'd rather we now left the topic alone on here. I've shared my views, which clearly align with many in the gay+ community itself.

Dig up.

 

[Ric Glasgow]

Dig up.

Stuck with the Crossword again Sydney?

Exhume?

 

[look_back_in_amber]

There might be gays posting on here,there might be people who know and love gay people on here...There are also several women posters!!

Show some respect to everyone...

Right, I have no issues with LGBQ and certain T’s, however I do think some people need to get a grip. People nowadays appear to get offended over everything, and if they can’t find something to be offended by then they’re ****ing offended that they can’t find something to be offended by, plus everyone is perfectly entitled to their own point of view, at least whilst we still have freedom of speech.

 

[Girt Bucket]

Purity Is Still The Favoured Traditional Value Of Men - I Would Ponder

 

[Red top reader]

Right, I have no issues with LGBQ and certain T’s, however I do think some people need to get a grip. People nowadays appear to get offended over everything, and if they can’t find something to be offended by then they’re ****ing offended that they can’t find something to be offended by, plus everyone is perfectly entitled to their own point of view, at least whilst we still have freedom of speech.

Absolutely and completely agree with every word you put…. Best post of the day, fiver is in the post lol

 

[rovertiger]

Right, I have no issues with LGBQ and certain T’s, however I do think some people need to get a grip. People nowadays appear to get offended over everything, and if they can’t find something to be offended by then they’re ****ing offended that they can’t find something to be offended by, plus everyone is perfectly entitled to their own point of view, at least whilst we still have freedom of speech.

I feel offended by all those offended words you've just posted.

 

[Off The Line]

Right, I have no issues with LGBQ and certain T’s, however I do think some people need to get a grip. People nowadays appear to get offended over everything, and if they can’t find something to be offended by then they’re ****ing offended that they can’t find something to be offended by, plus everyone is perfectly entitled to their own point of view, at least whilst we still have freedom of speech.

Surely then people also have the right to be offended? Even people who appear to be offended by people getting offended. The thing with anyone taking offence is to use it as a tool to look inwardly, because any trigger that we experience has derived from events in our past, so I'd recommend a bit of acceptance for that also.

 

[Paul Jewitt]

Right, I have no issues with LGBQ and certain T’s, however I do think some people need to get a grip. People nowadays appear to get offended over everything, and if they can’t find something to be offended by then they’re ****ing offended that they can’t find something to be offended by, plus everyone is perfectly entitled to their own point of view, at least whilst we still have freedom of speech.

Like people getting offended by rainbow corner flags?