Fighting for 4th Spot?

[TheTruthHurts]

piskie this board exisit in c98-2005?

the fact we have so much noise and infighting shows you where we are as club ... this cannot be ignored as to how it got to this.

when an irish man who stood toe to toe with viera tells us this is the worst arsenal side he's seen he said it with no smile, no enjoyment and no sarcasm ... he said what a lot of people who support arsenal think but feel scared, feel bullied and told they are disloyal to even think it.

Say it loud say it proud .. I support Arsenal .... and were not very good .................................. at the moment.

 

[Arsenal4life]

I think it's very telling that we don't hear anything from some of the 'Real fans' when we are winning.

Are you trying to be annoying? Seriously your so smug and condescending in EVERYTHING you say. Does my head in. If you think your better than us then just put it in your signature or something.

 

[PINKIE]

No but it existed a long time before this month I'd agree that we're not very good at the moment and I'd also agree that there are different views about what we need to do to get back on track - I've never said that anyone shouldn't express the view they have. I might not agree with all of it, as I'm sure that some people don't agree with what I have to say. There is a lot of noise and infighting and of course that's always going to attract some wums to our board like a moth to the flame.

 

[PowerSpurs]

The so-called big clubs are only big because their recent success has been amplified by the CL riches (or rich benefactors). But this is only a more extreme version of what has happened throughout history. All the big clubs in England have had long bad patches or even been relegated quite recently except for Arsenal (and they've been closer than you might think - see my signature). But it is true that once you miss a season in the CL it is hard to get back in. Margins between success and failure are finer than ever before, but if the same four teams were in the top four for an extended period it wouldn't be a proper sport at all, really.

And from my experience - always support your team especially through the bad patches, and never wish for a season to end - the next one might be worse! But suggesting how things could be improved is fine

 

[Arsenal4life]

The so-called big clubs are only big because their recent success has been amplified by the CL riches (or rich benefactors). But this is only a more extreme version of what has happened throughout history. All the big clubs in England have had long bad patches or even been relegated quite recently except for Arsenal (and they've been closer than you might think - see my signature). But it is true that once you miss a season in the CL it is hard to get back in. Margins between success and failure are finer than ever before, but if the same four teams were in the top four for an extended period it wouldn't be a proper sport at all, really.

Good post. I do laugh at the 7 years without a trophy line fans give us. Cos 7 years is nothing really. Now our own fans are using it its a joke.

Wenger needs 1 more summer to sort this mess out. The problem isnt the results now its the trend. We are going backwards very quickly and that needs reversing. If that means wenger has to go then so be it. But i dont see why he cant be given 1 more summer and the first half of next year.

 

[omogooner]

I seriously think not qualifying for the champions league would be better for us in the long-term. This will make the powers that be re-think their strategy as regards moving the club forward. We have coasted for far too long, and we have convinced ourselves that we are moving in the right direction because of Champions League qualification.

We keep propagating the myth it is important that we qualify for Champions League so that we can attract/retain top quality players. Guys remind me the last time we were able to attract and SIGN a top draw player? Precisely!

 

[theHotHead]

And from my experience - always support your team especially through the bad patches, and never wish for a season to end - the next one might be worse! But suggesting how things could be improved is fine

You were going well up until this point. I know many Spurs fans who gave up on seasons long before February. So your ho0lier than thou post is meaningless. Spurs .. the forever "next season" club

 

[TheTruthHurts]

success goes in cycles ... some of us remember the mid 70s or mid 80s arsenal teams ..... we went 17 yrs without winning the league title ... spurs are on 51 and counting mind .. so if supporting a team was all about winning it would explian the man utd supportes in exeter ... dover, singapore and aberdeen ...

i dont think a season out of the champs league would be as bad as everyone says .... it would allow for proper home truths to be addressed, sort out the chaps from the chapettes and after all a struggling poor arsenal are still fourth .. masking a million holes i know but they can be filled and next year build from scratch so to speak ... remember wenger did not start in the champs league .. he inherited a good sqaud and built on it to make the champs league.... i have my personal doubts he can build on this weak squad purely on what pours from his mouth and pours onto the pitch each week,

but a season to liven us all up albeit out of the champs league ... well taking our medicine might just lead to a cycle coming back round .. who knows.

 

[theHotHead]

Let's see some of that 'getting behind the team' then big man.

your idea of getting behind the team and mine clearly are not the same. I am not willing to pretend things are ok and claim we have better players than we do and that our manager is great because of what he did 7 seasons ago. I will not go shouting from the rooftops because we went on a 10 game unbeaten streak when I knew another defeat was round the corner because we had papered over the cracks. I will not go into the game against Spurs feeling confident that we can win and goad Spurs fans, like I used to do, because I will inevitably end up with egg on my face.

I support the team because they are Arsenal FC, they represent ME - born a stones throw from the stadium, raised in Holloway, schooled in Holloway, they are a part of me that most fans can only dream of having, a link that many do not have and do not understand. When we were mid table rubbish it was MY mid table rubbish, I shouted and sang songs like everyone else, we were not expected to win things .. and we didn't, fine by me.

Things changed, George Graham raised the profile of the club, Arsenal began to dominate NLDs and win leagues, expectations grew. We were no longer mid table mediocrity but then we slipped back into mid table mediocrity - but it is MY club and as much as I didn't like that I was a Gooner and everybody knew it - the banter leading up to NLDs never ceased even if they ended up being the biggest games of the season for us.

Wenger will go but Arsenal will still remain a part of me, so my loyalty is with the club. Until our expectations drop I EXPECT us to be challenging, anything else is not good enough and I won't accept it, no REAL Arsenal fan would.

 

[TheTruthHurts]

thehothead ..well said my friend from the heart (which is where support truely comes from)

i was born a goal kick from the new ground .. directly opposite the tube station and have followed them since i can remember and will until i die ..... my blind faith is in supporting arsenal football club, not arsene plc .. this is where I differ with some on this site.

we all want the best for our club but im happy to not win things as long as were competing and showing class and acting professional, something i think were losing.

if we went another 10yrs with nothing and i could still afford it ... my seat in the ground would have me in it week in week out supporting them .. but if aksed my opinion on the team ... i would not lie and say we are great .. if we are not .. it does now make me disloyal to say this or think this.

i want wenger out purely so I can get my club back, thats sad but its what is has come down to for me ..... Arsenal for Arsenal fans not arsene fans

 

[PINKIE]

your idea of getting behind the team and mine clearly are not the same. I am not willing to pretend things are ok and claim we have better players than we do and that our manager is great because of what he did 7 seasons ago. I will not go shouting from the rooftops because we went on a 10 game unbeaten streak when I knew another defeat was round the corner because we had papered over the cracks. I will not go into the game against Spurs feeling confident that we can win and goad Spurs fans, like I used to do, because I will inevitably end up with egg on my face.

I support the team because they are Arsenal FC, they represent ME - born a stones throw from the stadium, raised in Holloway, schooled in Holloway, they are a part of me that most fans can only dream of having, a link that many do not have and do not understand. When we were mid table rubbish it was MY mid table rubbish, I shouted and sang songs like everyone else, we were not expected to win things .. and we didn't, fine by me.

Things changed, George Graham raised the profile of the club, Arsenal began to dominate NLDs and win leagues, expectations grew. We were no longer mid table mediocrity but then we slipped back into mid table mediocrity - but it is MY club and as much as I didn't like that I was a Gooner and everybody knew it - the banter leading up to NLDs never ceased even if they ended up being the biggest games of the season for us.

Wenger will go but Arsenal will still remain a part of me, so my loyalty is with the club. Until our expectations drop I EXPECT us to be challenging, anything else is not good enough and I won't accept it, no REAL Arsenal fan would.

I don't think I've ever said that everything is ok, in fact I've pointed out exactly what I think needs to change. But if you were there (like me) signing and cheering on this team when we were a mid table side, then you will also understand that even now, we are a million miles from the dross that was then. You'll also understand that even then, when we used to get beaten at home by teams like Ipswich and Derby the fans would still get behind the team and fight for them. We still have a chance for 4th this season. I think we should be fighting tooth and nail to get it. The Toon fans who posted on this thread summed that up when they said that they hoped to see more of the demotivating attitude from Arsenal fans as it would help their club fight for 4th instead and that they would go on a three day bender if their club got a Champions League place. The defeatist attitude that I've read from some on this thread, who seem to think it's not even worth fighting for, simply astounds me.

 

[Arsenal4life]

I don't think I've ever said that everything is ok, in fact I've pointed out exactly what I think needs to change. But if you were there (like me) signing and cheering on this team when we were a mid table side, then you will also understand that even now, we are a million miles from the dross that was then. You'll also understand that even then, when we used to get beaten at home by teams like Ipswich and Derby the fans would still get behind the team and fight for them. We still have a chance for 4th this season. I think we should be fighting tooth and nail to get it. The Toon fans who posted on this thread summed that up when they said that they hoped to see more of the demotivating attitude from Arsenal fans as it would help their club fight for 4th instead and that they would go on a three day bender if their club got a Champions League place. The defeatist attitude that I've read from some on this thread, who seem to think it's not even worth fighting for, simply astounds me.

Piskie. I agree with alot of what you write but its the way you say it that annoys people imo. You should respect other fans opinions and not constantly suggest that they arent real fans for thinking different to you.

Things arent that bad you are right. But the trend is downwards and downwards rapidly. This is what is worrying to everyone.

 

[theHotHead]

I don't think I've ever said that everything is ok, in fact I've pointed out exactly what I think needs to change. But if you were there (like me) signing and cheering on this team when we were a mid table side, then you will also understand that even now, we are a million miles from the dross that was then. You'll also understand that even then, when we used to get beaten at home by teams like Ipswich and Derby the fans would still get behind the team and fight for them. We still have a chance for 4th this season. I think we should be fighting tooth and nail to get it. The Toon fans who posted on this thread summed that up when they said that they hoped to see more of the demotivating attitude from Arsenal fans as it would help their club fight for 4th instead and that they would go on a three day bender if their club got a Champions League place. The defeatist attitude that I've read from some on this thread, who seem to think it's not even worth fighting for, simply astounds me.

We mostly discuss what is wrong with the club on this board, yeah some people rant but, mostly we discuss. What bothers me are fans that try to balance things or argue points that don't need to be argued, as if we should accept the mediocrity that we have been fed. It is not being defeatist at all. This thread has highlighted the fact that 4th place to Arsenal football club is acceptable, well its bloody not. This season is dead, I am not going to lose sleep over it, I'm angry about it, but, it is what it is. We need CL football for sure otherwise you fear for Arsenal next season and subsequent seasons if we continue down the path of no investment.

Do I want us to finish 4th, of course I do, but I am certainly not happy about it. The Toon fans know we are there for the taking, clubs see our team sheet and think stop RVP and we beat Arsenal, NOBODY fears us because we have a weak team, it has nothing to do with the support. Teams come into games knowing EXACTLY how we will play, we are not a conundrum, we are meat and 2 veg, basic. Wenger built a dynasty and promptly smashed it to pieces.

 

[EmirAleks]

Of course he is. He cant buy Messi or Ronaldo, or pay some has been £300k per week. But he iuis not hindered from buying the likes of Mata, or Hazard, or Goetze. He simply doesn't want to admit that his policy of youth and tippy tappy backsideways passing is not working.

No one is stopping him buying quality. He just cant bring himself to admit he has failed.

I have no doubts that given the chance Wenger would bring Goetze, Hazard or McVila. So far the problem is when players of this caliber decide to move they will be looking for a club able to give them £100+. Arsenal is not an attractive proposition to them at the moment.

 

[Drogs]

Don't know if this has been posted on here yet but it's pretty much spot on from George Graham

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17095044

 

[PINKIE]

Piskie. I agree with alot of what you write but its the way you say it that annoys people imo. You should respect other fans opinions and not constantly suggest that they arent real fans for thinking different to you.

Things arent that bad you are right. But the trend is downwards and downwards rapidly. This is what is worrying to everyone.

Fair enough. But to be fair I'm not suggesting people aren't real fans for having a different view, I've always been consistent about saying that we're all entitled to express our views without getting into fights with others because of it. What I am suggesting though about the 'real fans' issue is that our board has attracted some wums who are using the opportunity to stir up the existing tension.

 

[PINKIE]

We mostly discuss what is wrong with the club on this board, yeah some people rant but, mostly we discuss. What bothers me are fans that try to balance things or argue points that don't need to be argued, as if we should accept the mediocrity that we have been fed. It is not being defeatist at all. This thread has highlighted the fact that 4th place to Arsenal football club is acceptable, well its bloody not. This season is dead, I am not going to lose sleep over it, I'm angry about it, but, it is what it is. We need CL football for sure otherwise you fear for Arsenal next season and subsequent seasons if we continue down the path of no investment.

Do I want us to finish 4th, of course I do, but I am certainly not happy about it. The Toon fans know we are there for the taking, clubs see our team sheet and think stop RVP and we beat Arsenal, NOBODY fears us because we have a weak team, it has nothing to do with the support. Teams come into games knowing EXACTLY how we will play, we are not a conundrum, we are meat and 2 veg, basic. Wenger built a dynasty and promptly smashed it to pieces.

I don't disagree that we shouldn't accept mediocrity for our club. I think we need a radical shake up at Arsenal. But the defeatist attitude I mention is that this thread seemed to suggest that there was no point even battling for 4th as we should be better. The idea of not being up for a game against Spurs - simply horrifies me! Our club might be in a mess at the moment - but what has it come to when our fans can't even rouse some passion against our biggest rivals ???

 

[PINKIE]

I have no doubts that given the chance Wenger would bring Goetze, Hazard or McVila. So far the problem is when players of this caliber decide to move they will be looking for a club able to give them £100+. Arsenal is not an attractive proposition to them at the moment.

There is a story in the Mirror that the board are about to smash their wage structure in order to bring players to Arsenal who would otherwise go elsewhere, and to keep the likes of RVP with us.

 

[Arsenal87]

I don't disagree that we shouldn't accept mediocrity for our club. I think we need a radical shake up at Arsenal. But the defeatist attitude I mention is that this thread seemed to suggest that there was no point even battling for 4th as we should be better. The idea of not being up for a game against Spurs - simply horrifies me! Our club might be in a mess at the moment - but what has it come to when our fans can't even rouse some passion against our biggest rivals ???

good, be horrified, what should horrify you more is not that some fans like me aren't up for the game, but WHY it has come all the way down to this, . I'm still not up for the Spurs game, the more I think of our upcoming games, the more demotivated i get when I realise all were playing for is 4th spot, that that's what all these future games represent, nothing more, nothing less, just to finish 4th, wow, how bloody inspiring.

 

[PINKIE]

good, be horrified, what should horrify you more is not that some fans like me aren't up for the game, but WHY it has come all the way down to this, . I'm still not up for the Spurs game, the more I think of our upcoming games, the more demotivated i get when I realise all were playing for is 4th spot, that that's what all these future games represent, nothing more, nothing less, just to finish 4th, wow, how bloody inspiring.

Do you not think that getting a Champions League place is important ?