Off Topic EU deabte. Which way are you voting ?

[DMD]

What would you like greater control over?

Bearing in mind that you have one vote and that the party you vote for may not win an election. Also even if they do they may not fulfil on their pre election promises.

So you feel you have no control anyway, so see the £700 as good value.

 

[DMD]

We have facts and evidence to back up those assertions. Look at the behaviour of the markets!

All leave have is supposition, promises, and 'trust me' . Well, sorry, I don't!...

Your "facts" are no more valid than the ones others offer and you dismiss.

 

[Treble]

UK government has tried to devolve power, to such as the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly, EU prefers centralisation. There are exceptions, but it would need a radical shake up for that to occur here.
The EU is struggling as an entity, and needs to trim its outgoings, and raise its incomes. That is quite liable to lead to further cuts in public spending and more privatisation of services, that will be run purely for profit.

Are you not concerned that the right wing campaigners who want Out, are the very same people who want to cut public spending and privatise more of our services?

Also, you may not be saying this, but I'[ll add it anyway. It wasn't the EU that caused our need for austerity, it was the global financial **** up through the banking credit crunch. And it was OUR government that went down the austerity route. If we continue to have austerity it will be because our government deems it necessary, not the EU.

 

[DMD]

Are you not concerned that the right wing campaigners who want Out, are the very same people who want to cut public spending and privatise more of our services?

Also, you may not be saying this, but I'[ll add it anyway. It wasn't the EU that caused our need for austerity, it was the global financial **** up through the banking credit crunch. And it was OUR government that went down the austerity route. If we continue to have austerity it will be because our government deems it necessary, not the EU.

And we can vote out that government, but I wouldn't be so sure that the EU was a minor player in it all.

As for right wing, have a look at the rise of right wing extremists in Europe, feeding off the very issues this campaign is about.

If they push hard enough, and force a referendum in other countries, we could well find ourselves being left with the EU bill.

 

[Solid Air]

If you're interested, just google for something along the lines of "positive economic benefits to brexit" I've drawn my view from a bundle of sources, posting one or two will simply drag the discussion to those.

Having read a few, I reckon there will be a slight down turn initially, but not the long running and deep collapse some are espousing. Even the remain campaign costs it at about £700 for each of us. For me, that's a reasonable price to maintain democracy.

Turn it round, as the remain figures are most likely worse case, would you sell your right to have a vote on who makes the rules for £700?

sounds quite cheap doesn't it but you you take £700 per person from the economy then see how you feel - i have a feeling it might not be so happy as it doesnt half add up and the effects multiply

 

[Stan]

So you feel you have no control anyway, so see the £700 as good value.

No idea how you got that from what I posted.

 

[Stan]

And we can vote out that government, but I wouldn't be so sure that the EU was a minor player in it all.

As for right wing, have a look at the rise of right wing extremists in Europe, feeding off the very issues this campaign is about.

If they push hard enough, and force a referendum in other countries, we could well find ourselves being left with the EU bill.

Then the government calls another referendum. It's not rocket science.

 

[Treble]

since all predictions are that least 40% of the UK population will vote leave you may wish to consider that perhaps the vast majority aren't rabid xenophobes/racists but have genuine concerns about the sheer level of net immigration and added to that the increase in population that is causing due to the also increased birthrate plus basically lots of people feel ignored / marginalised and removing one layer of control over them is appealing.

I voted remain due almost entirely to the economy as the EU will "attack" the city of london and whilst i despise so many in the financial sector it is so vital to our emasculated economy we have no choice but protect it plus our only successful manufacturing industry is car making (though we own non of the companies ) which will have serious worries if we leave the EU and will start to look at the possibility of resiting plants

The vast majority of those 40% are xenophobes. Not necessarily racists, but xenophobes nonetheless. I say that because when I listen to their opinions, their whole viewpoint is based on the lowest common denominator without any real depth of knowledge beyond that. It's the usual hotchpotch of... immigrants are stealing our jobs, claiming our benefits, taking over our cities, the EU is taking all our powers, we can't do anything on our own. Ofcourse when you try to engage them with any reasonable argument, they don't want to know.

To be fair, this isn't a unique situation. You look at any society during any period of history, and nearly all have had a significant minority (in extreme cases majority) succomb to the "the foreigners are a threat to our way of life". This country has also seen it for centuries...all the way back to the French a few hundred years ago, followed by the jews, the blacks, then the asians. But it always seems to be the "last set of immigrants" that are the problem.

 

[DMD]

sounds quite cheap doesn't it but you you take £700 per person from the economy then see how you feel - i have a feeling it might not be so happy as it doesnt half add up and the effects multiply

It seems reasonable if it takes control away from those that are overseeing the economic mess that is the EU.

People seem to think the EU is somehow a passport to economic growth, when the indications are that it's struggling more than other areas.

 

[Stan]

It seems reasonable if it takes control away from those that are overseeing the economic mess that is the EU.

People seem to think the EU is somehow a passport to economic growth, when the indications are that it's struggling more than other areas.

Where do you get that from?

They're anti-isolationism.

 

[DMD]

No idea how you got that from what I posted.

It was your answer to the question.

Then the government calls another referendum. It's not rocket science.

So as well a selling your vote, you're in favour of leaving the rest of Europe to financial ruin, having first watched our own economy decline, and seen the rise of the far right.

It's your choice, I just prefer an alternative.

 

[DMD]

Where do you get that from?

They're anti-isolationism.

Some are suggesting a vote for remain, on the grounds that there's the risk of an economic down turn if we pull out. That seems to suggest they believe there won't be if we remain.

The EU as a group is already isolated from the other global markets due to tariffs and quotas.

 

[Treble]

And we can vote out that government, but I wouldn't be so sure that the EU was a minor player in it all.

As for right wing, have a look at the rise of right wing extremists in Europe, feeding off the very issues this campaign is about.

If they push hard enough, and force a referendum in other countries, we could well find ourselves being left with the EU bill.

What percentage of the country vote at all. It's pathetic that something like 25% of our population decide on our elected government. And then, even if we do vote, what percentage of the nation vote on single issues like cutting public spending or privatisation, DMD?

However, that's missed my point slightly. I'm simply saying that the ideology of cutting public spending and inreasing privatisation, is as much the ethos of the brexiters, so it's not a choice between one or the other.

Agree about the rise of the right wing, but that happens during times of economic downturn like we've experienced over the last 8 years. It's to be expected tbf. I remember the same thing happening in the early 90's.

 

[NSIS]

Your "facts" are no more valid than the ones others offer and you dismiss.

How? This has never occurred before. What credible evidence of a brighter future can the leave campaign possibly offer?

All central banks, including The World Bank, The IMF, The OECD, all, have warned of the damage that would be done by leaving now.

All Farage, Boris, Gove and company have is promises....

 

[DMD]

What percentage of the country vote at all. It's pathetic that something like 25% of our population decide on our elected government. And then, even if we do vote, what percentage of the nation vote on single issues like cutting public spending or privatisation, DMD?

However, that's missed my point slightly. I'm simply saying that the ideology of cutting public spending and inreasing privatisation, is as much the ethos of the brexiters, so it's not a choice between one or the other.

Agree about the rise of the right wing, but that happens during times of economic downturn like we've experienced over the last 8 years. It's to be expected tbf. I remember the same thing happening in the early 90's.

25% is still more than have a real say in Europe.

As you say, extremists grow in times of inequality, they're growing in many of the countries that are big players of the EU. Do we need to be adding their problems to ours?

 

[PINKIE]

Some are suggesting a vote for remain, on the grounds that there's the risk of an economic down turn if we pull out. That seems to suggest they believe there won't be if we remain.

The EU as a group is already isolated from the other global markets due to tariffs and quotas.

That's not true though. Most large international trade deals happen within trading blocks. The US, China and Asian markets deal with the EU as a trading block, of which we get a slice of the pie by being a part of. If we try and forge deals outside of the EU, then we have to pay a tariff to deal with the EU and as Obama said, if we leave we will be at the back of the queue behind the EU when it comes to forging deals with the US.

 

[DMD]

How? This has never occurred before. What credible evidence of a brighter future can the leave campaign possibly offer?

All central banks, including The World Bank, The IMF, The OECD, all, have warned of the damage that would be done by leaving now.

All Farage, Boris, Gove and company have is promises....

Some of those have reassessed their predictions over the last few days. People have pointed at countries like Norway as an example, I'd point at Switzerland.

If there's no examples to quote from, your argument and facts need to be weighed by exactly the same standards.

 

[DMD]

That's not true though. Most large international trade deals happen within trading blocks. The US, China and Asian markets deal with the EU as a trading block, of which we get a slice of the pie by being a part of. If we try and forge deals outside of the EU, then we have to pay a tariff to deal with the EU and as Obama said, if we leave we will be at the back of the queue behind the EU when it comes to forging deals with the US.

That's not strictly accurate.

 

[PINKIE]

That's not strictly accurate.

What part isn't accurate ?

 

[DMD]

What part isn't accurate ?

There are plenty of deals done without being part of block agreements. Being out of the EU opens, rather than closes market opportunities.