Off Topic EU deabte. Which way are you voting ?

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How will you vote in the EU referendum ?


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This is going to drag on for years, most likely.

I see there is now a legal challenge to stop any PM invoking article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty without a debate and vote in parliament.

Philip Hammond said that will not happen, Parliament have voted on doing the referendum and would accept the outcome. So whatever the courts say (if they tried), Parliament would ignore it.

It was on Radio 5 this morning.
 
Ignoring the issues around benefit payments for their children, the migrant workers tend to spend little, and then often in 'foreign' run shops, such as the Bangladeshi run Skleps, which takes it out of the local economy, before leaving taking the money with them, to be replaced by others, where the cycle continues.

It leaves a reduced number of worker in their homelands, meaning they struggle economically and need support.

Paying people less drives down other wages, which leads to less money being available to spend.

There's a billionaire doing the talk circuits that emphasises the fact that lower wages (or zero wages) are not good for the local economy, but can make a few individuals wealthy he quotes the example of I think Seattle and Washington, as City's that increased their minimum wage, and then become the two fastest growing economies in the US.

He also makes the point that what limits entrepreneurs isn't a lack of ability, but a lack of customers able to buy the product. Hence people being paid nothing, such as the slaves, hindered their local economy on a very big scale.

That is a non argument. The foreign shops pay their taxes, rent, business rates, utilities. Those people who run the shops spend their money again in the UK economy (as well as those obviously spending their money in the shops) Trying to say that all the money somehow simply goes abroad simply isn't true.

I agree that low wages are problematic, but that is the responsibility of industry/Govt to pay a proper living wage. You appear to be blaming immigrants for creating a low wage economy, which seems to miss the point of why low wages exist.
 
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Philip Hammond said that will not happen, Parliament have voted on doing the referendum and would accept the outcome. So whatever the courts say (if they tried), Parliament would ignore it.

It was on Radio 5 this morning.

The law firm doing it are Mishcon de Reya, a heavyweight law firm. They're acting on behalf of clients and obviously think they have a case in law!
It matters not what Hammond says, this would go before the law courts.
 
That is a non argument. The foreign shops pay their taxes, rent, business rates, utilities. Those people who run the shops spend their money again in the UK economy (as well as those spending their money in the shops) Trying to say that all the money somehow simply goes abroad simply isn't true.

I agree that low wages are problematic, but that is the responsibility of industry/Govt to pay a proper living wage. You appear to be blaming immigrants for creating a low wage economy, which seems to miss the point of why low wages exist.

The people who run the shop's don't generally spend it in the UK. They have a culture of sending a good percentage 'home' to their families.

And don't try to spin it to me blaming immigrants, I'm not.
 
The people who run the shop's don't generally spend it in the UK. They have a culture of sending a good percentage 'home' to their families.

And don't try to spin it to me blaming immigrants, I'm not.

They simply cannot avoid paying their taxes, rent, business rates, utilities etc into the UK economy. Then there is their own housing, food, clothes, fuel etc. immigrants living here are paying vastly more into the UK economy than they are sending out of the country.

I'm glad you agree though that the low wage culture is not the fault of immigrants.
 
You've had to reinvent my reply to something I never argued in a desperate attempt to not be wrong again.

You're rubbish at this. :emoticon-0102-bigsm

You said and I quote;

" Some voted remain, because closing EU borders to largely white immigrants would open the borders to areas of the world with darker skins.
The remain position is more racist than the leave."

When pointed out that this is the most stupid post in the history of stupid, your retort was, and I quote;

"Europeans are largely white, and similar "race" depending how you want to define it. They get open access. The ones limited include all the other "races". If a company or political party applied a similar system of screening applicants, they'd find themselves pilloried for racism."

Which was merely digging a deeper pit for yourself.

It's absolute guff, hence the reason all you've come back with is your default vacuous inanity when pulled up on it, with actual facts.

Who are these people that supposedly voted remain with that as their driver? Or did you just make it up?
 
The law firm doing it are Mishcon de Reya, a heavyweight law firm. They're acting on behalf of clients and obviously think they have a case in law!
It matters not what Hammond says, this would go before the law courts.

Parliament will reject it, they have voted on having the referendum and would accept the outcome, its all to late.

So do we take everything we dont agree with to court, dont like that tax rise, take it to court etc.

Dont get your hopes up its pointless, we are leaving the EU
 
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They simply cannot avoid paying their taxes, rent, business rates, utilities etc into the UK economy. Then there is their own housing, food, clothes, fuel etc. immigrants living here are paying vastly more into the UK economy than they are sending out of the country.

I'm glad you agree though that the low wage culture is not the fault of immigrants.
Do they send more or less out of the country than the British business owners who go on multiple overseas holidays every year and buy property abroad?
 
Parliament will reject it, they have voted on having the referendum and would accept the outcome, its all to late.

So do we take everything we dont agree with to court, dont like that tax rise, take it to court etc.

Dont get your hopes up its pointless, we are leaving the EU

It's not Parliaments decision to make.

The referendum was nothing more than an opinion poll in legal terms, there was no legal requirement to act on it's result.
However, there is a legal requirement for Parliament to either repeal or replace the 1972 act which put us into the EU in the first place.
 
What's wrong with that if it squares the circle of paying for what you get, or getting what you graft for, whichever way you look at it?

I don't disagree. I think we've been brought up on 'cheap' food, which has massive hidden costs. It's the same with cheap clothes too. My feeling though is that your average Sun/Mail reader would kick off when those prices rise and try and find a way to blame immigrants for that too.
 
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You said and I quote;

" Some voted remain, because closing EU borders to largely white immigrants would open the borders to areas of the world with darker skins.
The remain position is more racist than the leave."

When pointed out that this is the most stupid post in the history of stupid, your retort was, and I quote;

"Europeans are largely white, and similar "race" depending how you want to define it. They get open access. The ones limited include all the other "races". If a company or political party applied a similar system of screening applicants, they'd find themselves pilloried for racism."

Which was merely digging a deeper pit for yourself.

It's absolute guff, hence the reason all you've come back with is your default vacuous inanity when pulled up on it, with actual facts.

Who are these people that supposedly voted remain with that as their driver? Or did you just make it up?

It's a statement of fact. The current EU immigration policy discriminates against people of colour. Institutions like the Black Police Officers Association had to rejig their own rules for far less obvious discriminatory policies.

You saying it's guff, is simply displaying your ignorance..again.
 
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