England - the aftermath
- Thread starter Plum
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I was more disappointed with Kane than Sterling , I expected him to bury that great chance he got
2 bites and he didn't put it away , overall though they certainly exceeded my expectations
2 bites and he didn't put it away , overall though they certainly exceeded my expectations
Kane has been underwhelming for the last couple of games. He's always popping up to deep and collecting the ball in midfield, similar to what Rooney used to do. Not sure if it's a fitness issue?
My issue is that, in my 36 years of supporting England, we've never produced a Luka Modric. Or an Iniesta, Pirlo, Hagi, Stoichkov, Xavi, Xabi Alonso, Zidane, etc... We've produced excellent defenders, and some very good forwards. But we don't produce midfielders with that tactical prowess and technique.
Watching Modric adapt to the way the game was going yesterday, you saw in-game intelligence. If I'm really straining, Wilkins, Hoddle and Platt come close to exhibiting that, but no one else at international level. Gascoigne was an insanely talented freak, a one-off, but the other names you're going to come up with - Scholes, Gerrard, Beckham, Lampard, etc - didn't have it outside of their domestic surroundings. And for all of Jordan Henderson's excellence in this tournament, he didn't too. Modric didn't need pre-match tactics to work out what to do. He started quietly - indeed he was a bit rubbish in the first half - but once he'd assessed the situation he was running the show. He'd seen what we were about, seen how to overcome that, and we didn't have anything to respond with.
Of the English names mentioned above, the three I mention positively played abroad for large chunks of their careers. Of the rest, only Beckham did, and - while he was a better player than many think - he wasn't comparable with the likes of Zidane, Iniesta and co. Until we start taking our players out of the Premier League comfort zone at key stages of their development, we'll continue to struggle on that score. Maybe Phil Foden will prove me wrong. Or maybe he'll be signing for West Ham by the time he's 26.
That's not to say England played badly last night, nor that we couldn't have won the game. Had we gone 2-0 up I think that we would. But the second half and extra time showed that, for all our improvements over the past two years, there's still some way to go. I don't think we have a plan B, or if we do it seems that it must be drilled into the players on the training ground. From my time watching international football, I feel that the teams that win things, as opposed to going out in the semi-finals, have players who can conjure up plans B, C and D simply through assessing what's in front of them and responding accordingly.
Watching Modric adapt to the way the game was going yesterday, you saw in-game intelligence. If I'm really straining, Wilkins, Hoddle and Platt come close to exhibiting that, but no one else at international level. Gascoigne was an insanely talented freak, a one-off, but the other names you're going to come up with - Scholes, Gerrard, Beckham, Lampard, etc - didn't have it outside of their domestic surroundings. And for all of Jordan Henderson's excellence in this tournament, he didn't too. Modric didn't need pre-match tactics to work out what to do. He started quietly - indeed he was a bit rubbish in the first half - but once he'd assessed the situation he was running the show. He'd seen what we were about, seen how to overcome that, and we didn't have anything to respond with.
Of the English names mentioned above, the three I mention positively played abroad for large chunks of their careers. Of the rest, only Beckham did, and - while he was a better player than many think - he wasn't comparable with the likes of Zidane, Iniesta and co. Until we start taking our players out of the Premier League comfort zone at key stages of their development, we'll continue to struggle on that score. Maybe Phil Foden will prove me wrong. Or maybe he'll be signing for West Ham by the time he's 26.
That's not to say England played badly last night, nor that we couldn't have won the game. Had we gone 2-0 up I think that we would. But the second half and extra time showed that, for all our improvements over the past two years, there's still some way to go. I don't think we have a plan B, or if we do it seems that it must be drilled into the players on the training ground. From my time watching international football, I feel that the teams that win things, as opposed to going out in the semi-finals, have players who can conjure up plans B, C and D simply through assessing what's in front of them and responding accordingly.
Yes this sounds very fair.
Foreign clubs are looking at our young players and hopefully some will go !!
When the team was announced as unchanged again last night I had concerns . It would have been harsh to drop anybody and change a winning team but there was a lot of fresh legs sat on the bench and a lot of tired ones on the pitch from half an hour in .
Fantastic analysis this, fully agree. Scholes is the one from the names you pull out that potentially could have done it for England, am never really sure why he didn't excel at international level as he has all the right ingredients, possibly Gerrard as well although I was never his biggest fan - I think they both had the potential but there's something about the English game that didn't allow them to realise it.
This.
Teams change through a World Cup and get better.
Platt wasn't in it till robbo s injury in 90.
Geoff hurst 66.
I though it was Southgate inexperience probably. Left him a bit stuck and afraid to change.
Would Sterling have had more of an impact coming on against tiring legs? Maybe.
Because imho I don't think a he'll score one eventually mantra was ever going to come off.
Kane wasn't right and we can't score. Why the **** he was hovering on the edge of the box when a couple of crosses came in I don't know. If that was under orders it was ****. If it was his choice he needed telling not to.
Best chance we'll ever get to reach a final. Gone. Doubt we'd have won but still.
I think that they both only had answers at a domestic level. I would love to have seen either of those players go to La Liga, Serie A on the Bundesliga at an early stage in their careers. Both had good games at international level but didn't come close to being as effective as they were within the confines of the England domestic set-up (where they are the two best English-born midfielders I've seen). It's great to see the likes of Jaden Sancho, Reece Oxford and Ademola Lookman going abroad while they're young. I hope that Phil Foden follows them, even if just on loan. Getting that extra perspective on your game can only do you good. It's astonishing to think that that fairly recent Greg Dyke blueprint for English football - with input from the likes of Danny Mills - devoted a great deal of time to ways in which to prevent English youngsters going abroad. It just shows what we're up against within our own country...
Our midfield has frustrated for decades, all the names mentioned seemed to play better for club than country. Did we give Le Tissier enough chances? Carrick, Huddlestone, Bullard, Barkley, Wilshere? How good will Winks & Foden be?
Gary Neville was wondering if Kane was carrying an injury of some sort and it might come out in the next couple of days, think Dele was too and most important Trippier had pulled his thigh and couldn't leap up to prevent the second goal
All we needed was a manager to bring the best out of Scholes in his pomp. We shoulda built the team round him, he could of ran games by himself.
Years ago Scholes was wanted in Spain. Xavi of Barca has him as his favourite player. Think Hoddle would of used him right but as we know Hoddles strange ways and the press both got him sacked.
A reporter once asked Zinedine Zidane: "How does it feel to be the best midfielder in the world?" Zidane replied: "Ask Paul Scholes."
Me neither, perfectly good goal, Tripier is small anyhow, and he was stooping to head the ball, so for me was a perfectly good goal.
Huge huge strides taken in terms of getting the media and fans back on side. Young hungry lads without the sense of ego we’ve suffered from with our perennial underachievers in the past.
The team has plenty of weaknesses but big credit to Southgate for playing a system that put our strengths to the forefront. However when the going got tough last night we did revert to the long ball which was disappointing.
These lads will only be better for the experience and hopefully in 2/4 years time the vast majority of them will have a lot more big game experience under their belts.
Regarding the enigma that is Sterling:
I really don’t buy into this whole fallacy that if you think he’s not been brilliant then you don’t understand football. Yes he terrifies defences with his pace, yes he makes runs that pull the opposition out of place and creates space for his team mates. But when he gets the ball in positions to hurt them he makes the wrong decision 90 percent of the time. Perhaps it’s the pressure of playing for England. Maybe he was trying to force it too much because you certainly couldn’t fault the lads effort. It’s just so frustrating to watch him shoot when he should pass or take an extra 4 touches when he should shoot.
But again he’s still young and will only learn, especially if he keeps getting game time in that man city team.
Final thought. The future is bright, but caution is to be advised with the optimism as the football superpowers won’t fail on the scale they did in this World Cup for a long time. Can’t help feeling that it’s a massive opportunity missed. Still very proud though
The team has plenty of weaknesses but big credit to Southgate for playing a system that put our strengths to the forefront. However when the going got tough last night we did revert to the long ball which was disappointing.
These lads will only be better for the experience and hopefully in 2/4 years time the vast majority of them will have a lot more big game experience under their belts.
Regarding the enigma that is Sterling:
I really don’t buy into this whole fallacy that if you think he’s not been brilliant then you don’t understand football. Yes he terrifies defences with his pace, yes he makes runs that pull the opposition out of place and creates space for his team mates. But when he gets the ball in positions to hurt them he makes the wrong decision 90 percent of the time. Perhaps it’s the pressure of playing for England. Maybe he was trying to force it too much because you certainly couldn’t fault the lads effort. It’s just so frustrating to watch him shoot when he should pass or take an extra 4 touches when he should shoot.
But again he’s still young and will only learn, especially if he keeps getting game time in that man city team.
Final thought. The future is bright, but caution is to be advised with the optimism as the football superpowers won’t fail on the scale they did in this World Cup for a long time. Can’t help feeling that it’s a massive opportunity missed. Still very proud though
That's a myth. He actually said David Meyler.