Off Topic Elon Musk

[young2077]

I didn't say they did ...

... and that wasn't my point of which you're well aware.

Not sure what your point was.

Failing to be a good enough parent to stop ypur daughter being used and trafficked by rape gangs isn't really a point that I see she should bring up?

She was the victim of one of these gangs whilst a child, she probably got in with the bloke willingly and wanted to have sex with him at first but at 14 you can't legally make that decision for a reason! But she was a victim became even more of a victim when they used vilolencd and threats to control her. Its the reason the gangs were sent to prison.

This would explain why she has an agenda!

 

[Smug in Boots]

Not sure what your point was.

Failing to be a good enough parent to stop ypur daughter being used and trafficked by rape gangs isn't really a point that I see she should bring up?

She was the victim of one of these gangs whilst a child, she probably got in with the bloke willingly and wanted to have sex with him at first but at 14 you can't legally make that decision for a reason! But she was a victim became even more of a victim when they used vilolencd and threats to control her. Its the reason the gangs were sent to prison.

This would explain why she has an agenda!

I know exactly what my point was tbh ...

... I really can't think how I could make it any clearer.

 

[Pure River Slut]

In the space of three seconds she says about needing to show respect then uses the word ******. Awful.

Being careful what I say and how I know, she’s not well thought of even in victim/lived experience circles. Outrageous what went on though and it was handled terribly this stuff, definitely overlooked by police, hidden etc for me mysogyny/girl blaming/child blaming from the police was as much an issue from mysogyny from the offenders, so there’s some truth in what she says. Important to remember it’s the views of one victim, she has the right to do it but it doesn’t mean it’s the oracle. It’s the problem with social media.

Here’s an alternative perspective on Starmer from someone else involved and I’d argue a more rational view than Maggie ‘support my organisation’ Oliver, who really has tapped in to partnerships with conspiracy theorists in Oldham (sorry it’s X but that seemed apt)
https://x.com/nazirafzal/status/1874750339842453794

As for ‘we’re not far right’. Stephen Yaxley Lennon is ex BNP. This is his campaign and the Musk response comes from that. So Sammy, I’m afraid Musk is quoting far right conspiracies and you are quoting him.

 

[young2077]

I know exactly what my point was tbh ...

... I really can't think how I could make it any clearer.

Yeah you said

... absolutely everyone to blame except themselves and their parents.

Not sure what ya want the woman to say? Do you expect her to be putting out videos saying she was partly to blame or her parents didn't look after her!

It's probably true her parents didn't look after her enough, I'll never blame a child for being the victim of ****philes though. They quite often go along with these adults knowing they are adults and wanting to have that type of relationship witht them. It's what grooming is!

I don't get what difference it makes though? I thought it was well known that this kind of grooming and trafficking were covered up and ignored in Rotherham. With councillors etc... blaming the girls and treating the Asian men as victims as they didn't know how to deal with white British girls?

She is going to be angry about this. If she was just some random British bloke in a union jack shirt I'd get your point. She is a victim of it, so understands grooming gangs more than we ever would.

 

[young2077]

Being careful what I say and how I know, she’s not well thought of even in victim/lived experience circles. Outrageous what went on though and it was handled terribly this stuff, definitely overlooked by police, hidden etc for me mysogyny/girl blaming/child blaming from the police was as much an issue from mysogyny from the offenders, so there’s some truth in what she says. Important to remember it’s the views of one victim, she has the right to do it but it doesn’t mean it’s the oracle. It’s the problem with social media.

Here’s an alternative perspective on Starmer from someone else involved and I’d argue a more rational view than Maggie ‘support my organisation’ Oliver, who really has tapped in to partnerships with conspiracy theorists in Oldham (sorry it’s X but that seemed apt)
https://x.com/nazirafzal/status/1874750339842453794

As for ‘we’re not far right’. Stephen Yaxley Lennon is ex BNP. This is his campaign and the Musk response comes from that. So Sammy, I’m afraid Musk is quoting far right conspiracies and you are quoting him.

@Smug in Boots if your point was along these lines then fair enough. Just that bit I've copied below can easily be interpreted at pointing blame at victims imo.

... absolutely everyone to blame except themselves and their parents.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Yeah you said

... absolutely everyone to blame except themselves and their parents.

Not sure what ya want the woman to say? Do you expect her to be putting out videos saying she was partly to blame or her parents didn't look after her!

It's probably true her parents didn't look after her enough, I'll never blame a child for being the victim of ****philes though. They quite often go along with these adults knowing they are adults and wanting to have that type of relationship witht them. It's what grooming is!

I don't get what difference it makes though? I thought it was well known that this kind of grooming and trafficking were covered up and ignored in Rotherham. With councillors etc... blaming the girls and treating the Asian men as victims as they didn't know how to deal with white British girls?

She is going to be angry about this. If she was just some random British bloke in a union jack shirt I'd get your point. She is a victim of it, so understands grooming gangs more than we ever would.

Absolutely yes, if that's the truth ...

... or it's an agenda.

She is partly to blame imo, unless her parents knew what was happening and encouraged her.

If they didn't know then they should have. If they knew and she defied them then she has to accpet some blame.

You're agreeing with me that her parents didn't take enough care of her so why shouldn't she.

Everything can't just be everyone else's fault which is my point.

 

[Smug in Boots]

@Smug in Boots if your point was along these lines then fair enough. Just that bit I've copied below can easily be interpreted at pointing blame at victims imo.

... absolutely everyone to blame except themselves and their parents.

What I'm saying is that this is her point of view ...

... not what I believe myself.

Of course there's an offender for every victim.

 

[Pure River Slut]

Yeah you said

... absolutely everyone to blame except themselves and their parents.

Not sure what ya want the woman to say? Do you expect her to be putting out videos saying she was partly to blame or her parents didn't look after her!

It's probably true her parents didn't look after her enough, I'll never blame a child for being the victim of ****philes though. They quite often go along with these adults knowing they are adults and wanting to have that type of relationship witht them. It's what grooming is!

I don't get what difference it makes though? I thought it was well known that this kind of grooming and trafficking were covered up and ignored in Rotherham. With councillors etc... blaming the girls and treating the Asian men as victims as they didn't know how to deal with white British girls?

She is going to be angry about this. If she was just some random British bloke in a union jack shirt I'd get your point. She is a victim of it, so understands grooming gangs more than we ever would.

I don’t think councillors were blaming girls or not to my knowledge, I don’t think councillors were involved in cases but some are connected through wider families. I think the impact of community race issues was considered in media reporting prompting accusations of cover up, people have different views on that, it’s not best for trust, but nor are riots, but it was police failure to nail or present evidence ultimately and the cps needed to be brave enough to do it. The person who did go for it in the end was a Muslim man who continues to challenge abuse and mysogyny and continues to support Starmer. Starmer isn’t the issue here, all he is doing is stating this and pointing out facts. Musk IS quoting a far right conspiracy video and his MP has done more to safeguard women than that nasty piece of coin. However, trauma does trigger imperfect behaviours so whatever I think of her beliefs/behaviours I’ll try to maintain respect and yes, vulnerable or not a gang of adult blokes shouldn’t ever be drugging kids and roaming them. Musk won’t have any genuine respect for the victims though, this is a scary time for the world when he is close to power. A beneficiary for apartheid hating on people of colour. Who’d have thought it?

 

[young2077]

Absolutely yes, if that's the truth ...

... or it's an agenda.


You're agreeing with me that her parents didn't take enough care of her so why shouldn't she.

Everything can't just be everyone else's fault which is my point.

I don't agree that victims would go out there way to put the impartial all sode to the story truth out there. I agree she has an agenda. But I can't blame her for that!

While I agree with most of what you are saying. She has an agenda, including thinking Musk is class (a real negative to anyone's brain power imo). I think it came across as victim blaming hence the replies you got.

 

[Smug in Boots]

I don't agree that victims would go out there way to put the impartial all sode to the story truth out there. I agree she has an agenda. But I can't blame her for that!

While I agree with most of what you are saying. She has an agenda, including thinking Musk is class (a real negative to anyone's brain power imo). I think it came across as victim blaming hence the replies you got.

In which case you, and anyone else, would be wrong.

 

[young2077]

I don’t think councillors were blaming girls or not to my knowledge, I don’t think councillors were involved in cases but some are connected through wider families. I think the impact of community race issues was considered in media reporting prompting accusations of cover up, people have different views on that, it’s not best for trust, but nor are riots, but it was police failure to nail or present evidence ultimately and the cps needed to be brave enough to do it. The person who did go for it in the end was a Muslim man who continues to challenge abuse and mysogyny and continues to support Starmer. Starmer isn’t the issue here, all he is doing is stating this and pointing out facts. Musk IS quoting a far right conspiracy video and his MP has done more to safeguard women than that nasty piece of coin. However, trauma does trigger imperfect behaviours so whatever I think of her beliefs/behaviours I’ll try to maintain respect and yes, vulnerable or not a gang of adult blokes shouldn’t ever be drugging kids and roaming them. Musk won’t have any genuine respect for the victims though, this is a scary time for the world when he is close to power. A beneficiary for apartheid hating on people of colour. Who’d have thought it?

I remember it being said by one of the community group leader who was involved in reporting it, something along the lines of they sat in a meeting where they were highlighting what was going on and what they were hearing from girls coming to their sexual health clinics etc... and she said something was said along the lines of the girls were the instigators and the men didn't know better. I said councillors may have been police, social workers etc..

Been a while since I looked at it to be fair.

 

[Smug in Boots]

I don’t think councillors were blaming girls or not to my knowledge, I don’t think councillors were involved in cases but some are connected through wider families. I think the impact of community race issues was considered in media reporting prompting accusations of cover up, people have different views on that, it’s not best for trust, but nor are riots, but it was police failure to nail or present evidence ultimately and the cps needed to be brave enough to do it. The person who did go for it in the end was a Muslim man who continues to challenge abuse and mysogyny and continues to support Starmer. Starmer isn’t the issue here, all he is doing is stating this and pointing out facts. Musk IS quoting a far right conspiracy video and his MP has done more to safeguard women than that nasty piece of coin. However, trauma does trigger imperfect behaviours so whatever I think of her beliefs/behaviours I’ll try to maintain respect and yes, vulnerable or not a gang of adult blokes shouldn’t ever be drugging kids and roaming them. Musk won’t have any genuine respect for the victims though, this is a scary time for the world when he is close to power. A beneficiary for apartheid hating on people of colour. Who’d have thought it?

In my opinion, if there's a local culture of grooming young girls then their parents should be twice as vigilant ...

... if they fail to be then they surely have to bear some responsibility.

If you live in the NE, and allow your daughter to do to the Portsmouth match in a T-shirt and shorts, you're partly to blame if she succumbs to hypothermia ...

... so is she for putting vanity before common sense imo.

 

[Pure River Slut]

I remember it being said by one of the community group leader who was involved in reporting it, something along the lines of they sat in a meeting where they were highlighting what was going on and what they were hearing from girls coming to their sexual health clinics etc... and she said something was said along the lines of the girls were the instigators and the men didn't know better. I said councillors may have been police, social workers etc..

Been a while since I looked at it to be fair.

Maybe. I know Oldham quite well, Rochdale in particular, Rotherham /Telford less so. There’s a lot of Facebook bullshit that’s been presumed fact. Not heard that, but there are councillors in all parties who I’d never dream of voting for, even in the parties I’d vote for, so it wouldn’t surprise me. All cultures. Of course some amazing ones with massive hearts.

 

[young2077]

I which case you, and anyone else, would be wrong.

Fair enough it was said to you I'm sure you don't mean it that way but it's the way it sounds.

I'm going to shut up on this stuff anyway as it messes with my head .

The reality is this kind of stuff will on to a scale we can't even think about. And the cover up isn't just because the gangs are mulslim or Asian etc... its usually down to the gangs getting a few people involved who can help cover it up. Look at the abuse that went on in children's home and borstal etc..

I think I would need to be dead for there to be any chance of it happening to my kids it's the only way I wouldn't notice something being off. Which again I know I'm agreeing with your point.

 

[young2077]

Maybe. I know Oldham quite well, Rochdale in particular, Rotherham /Telford less so. There’s a lot of Facebook bullshit that’s been presumed fact. Not heard that, but there are councillors in all parties who I’d never dream of voting for, even in the parties I’d vote for, so it wouldn’t surprise me. All cultures. Of course some amazing ones with massive hearts.

It's that Sara Rowbotham I'm thinking of but to be honest I might be getting mixed up with something I've read quoted from her and something that was in that BBC drama based on it!

 

[Smug in Boots]

Fair enough it was said to you I'm sure you don't mean it that way but it's the way it sounds.

I'm going to shut up on this stuff anyway as it messes with my head .

The reality is this kind of stuff will on to a scale we can't even think about. And the cover up isn't just because the gangs are mulslim or Asian etc... its usually down to the gangs getting a few people involved who can help cover it up. Look at the abuse that went on in children's home and borstal etc..

I think I would need to be dead for there to be any chance of it happening to my kids it's the only way I wouldn't notice something being off. Which again I know I'm agreeing with your point.

I couldn't care less how it sounds mate ...

... the most beautiful operatic aria can sound like a cat screaming to some people.

I'll allow you to decide who's right

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[young2077]

I couldn't care less how it sounds mate ...

... the most beautiful operatic aria can sound like a cat screaming to some people.

I'll allow you to decide who's right

You must log in or register to see media

I have been on here long enough to know that mate, I known you won't lose any sleep.over it

 

[Pure River Slut]

In my opinion, if there's a local culture of grooming young girls then their parents should be twice as vigilant ...

... if they fail to be then they surely have to bear some responsibility.

If you live in the NE, and allow your daughter to do to the Portsmouth match in a T-shirt and shorts, you're partly to blame if she succumbs to hypothermia ...

... so is she for putting vanity before common sense imo.

There’s definitely some truth in that. That’s why you bring a spare outfit.

Many were in care / care leavers and their mates who arguably should have been or eventually were. I don’t think there’s any doubt that most parents weren’t the best and care homes had lost control but I still hate the bastards who did / do it to any children. Vulnerable ones need the community to protect them not be vile.

 

[Smug in Boots]

There’s definitely some truth in that. That’s why you bring a spare outfit.

Many were in care / care leavers and their mates who arguably should have been or eventually were. I don’t think there’s any doubt that most parents weren’t the best and care homes had lost control but I still hate the bastards who did / do it to any children. Vulnerable ones need the community to protect them not be vile.

I'm no longer part of any community but I suspect they've generally become less than they once were.

One of my abiding memories, from Allendale Cottages 60 years go, was an incident I didn't understand at the time.

The women, from the street, stood outside the house of a man banging saucepans together and shouting. They kept it up for ages and, eventually, a man came out with a suitcase, scurried up the bank and was never seen again. The incident was never mentioned but decades later it came to mind and I resolved it by believing the man had 'interfered' with someone vulnerable then been 'drummed out' of the village.

We grew up knowing any adult was entitled to give us a clip but that we were safe from strangers and people from the village.

It's sad that those days have gone and young people believe they'd gained a lot without knowing what they've lost.

 

[Pure River Slut]

I'm no longer part of any community but I suspect they've generally become less than they once were.

One of my abiding memories, from Allendale Cottages 60 years go, was an incident I didn't understand at the time.

The women, from the street, stood outside the house of a man banging saucepans together and shouting. They kept it up for ages and, eventually, a man came out with a suitcase, scurried up the bank and was never seen again. The incident was never mentioned but decades later it came to mind and I resolved it by believing the man had 'interfered' with someone vulnerable then been 'drummed out' of the village.

We grew up knowing any adult was entitled to give us a clip but that we were safe from strangers and people from the village.

It's sad that those days have gone and young people believe they'd gained a lot without knowing what they've lost.

Aye that time for helping each other is hard to find these days and the young and vulnerable, aided by the internet and fuelled by the likes of Musk are the ones who suffer. It’s why I do the job I do. Give them a bit of support and joy.