Ellis Short

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When England got beat off Iceland nobody knew at that time that it would affect SAFC so much. Unbelievably bad luck for us. We finished the season on a massive high that year. Only the eventual champions Leicester beat us in our last 11 games! Kone was on fire... The atmosphere against Chelsea and Everton was electric .. The Mags were relegated... Then along came the mighty Iceland....
 
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Thoughts?

Martin Bain did a talk in last night..this is a summary of what was said.

Moyes - made mistakes but got a raw deal in terms of circumstances
Rodwell - lost his way. Turns up for training. Fulfils contractual obligations but doesn't apply himself. Opportunity to move to 3 clubs in January turned down by him.
Colback - "club" thought they could get better than him for less money
Communication with Short - Bain's hardly spoken to him until last few weeks. Bain can't plan without dialogue. Coleman knew financial status before contract. Coleman wanted to stay. Not about money.
Alvarez - atrocious deal before his time.
Grabban - asked to leave.
Academy status - no way will change on Bain's watch. Club in limbo. Can't discuss Business Plan but from his discussions with new people no intention to change.
Women's football - £780k/yr budget. Zero academy procurement budget. Made sense to disband women (some full-time/some part time - disjointed anyway)
Biggest frustration - inability to plan with a budget.
Why was Coleman sacked? Contractual issues. Takeover this week.
Concerts - home games at start of season. Some lucrative/some not. Likely to come back under new owners.
Rotten core - players haven't match club's identity. Player mentality no good. Culture of club no good.
Bain - no instruction from Short. No sustained budget. No 3 or 5 year plan.
If Short wrote off debt, didn't he want Short to invest earlier? "**** yes". Bain tried to get Short to invest.
Redundancies/his salary of £1m+ - he didn't apply for job, Short approached him. He didn't negotiate a single number, that was the package offered. 70 people released. Club was bloated. Lots of promotions from within. Needed clear out & justification of jobs.
What went wrong? - Squad better than position. Inability to plan in advance.
 
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polyphemus said:
Sorry but your arithmetic doesn't stand up.
In general terms the interest payment amounts to around £7 mil PA.
On a debt of £140mil that means about 5%.
That's not excessive particularly when you consider our 'basket case ' finances.
He has been in charge for nine years and if we assume that the debt has crept up gradually the interest over that period would be around £32mil, well short of the quoted £140mil.

As for your conclusion that there is more to this than meets the eye, you may well be correct, but that's not our problem.
I'm one of those who doesn't look a gift horse in the gob.:emoticon-0148-yes::emoticon-0164-cash:
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5% is excessive for borrowing at that level mate but it wouldn’t stun us to see the powers that be at the club not being sharp at that.
 
Vincemac said:
Thoughts?

Martin Bain did a talk in last night..this is a summary of what was said.

Moyes - made mistakes but got a raw deal in terms of circumstances
Rodwell - lost his way. Turns up for training. Fulfils contractual obligations but doesn't apply himself. Opportunity to move to 3 clubs in January turned down by him.
Colback - "club" thought they could get better than him for less money
Communication with Short - Bain's hardly spoken to him until last few weeks. Bain can't plan without dialogue. Coleman knew financial status before contract. Coleman wanted to stay. Not about money.
Alvarez - atrocious deal before his time.
Grabban - asked to leave.
Academy status - no way will change on Bain's watch. Club in limbo. Can't discuss Business Plan but from his discussions with new people no intention to change.
Women's football - £780k/yr budget. Zero academy procurement budget. Made sense to disband women (some full-time/some part time - disjointed anyway)
Biggest frustration - inability to plan with a budget.
Why was Coleman sacked? Contractual issues. Takeover this week.
Concerts - home games at start of season. Some lucrative/some not. Likely to come back under new owners.
Rotten core - players haven't match club's identity. Player mentality no good. Culture of club no good.
Bain - no instruction from Short. No sustained budget. No 3 or 5 year plan.
If Short wrote off debt, didn't he want Short to invest earlier? "**** yes". Bain tried to get Short to invest.
Redundancies/his salary of £1m+ - he didn't apply for job, Short approached him. He didn't negotiate a single number, that was the package offered. 70 people released. Club was bloated. Lots of promotions from within. Needed clear out & justification of jobs.
What went wrong? - Squad better than position. Inability to plan in advance.
Click to expand...
Martin Bain's passing of the book there was better than anything we've seen on the pitch with a ball during his time here
 
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Nads said:
5% is excessive for borrowing at that level mate but it wouldn’t stun us to see the powers that be at the club not being sharp at that.
Click to expand...


Honestly, I'm not being picky but I assumed that the borrowing would be from a US Based bank.
In that case their equivalent to our Bank Base Rate has been higher than ours since the 2008 'crash'.
Currently I understand the Fed Rate to be 2% when our Bank Rate is 0.5%.
 
Vincemac said:
Thoughts?

Martin Bain did a talk in last night..this is a summary of what was said.

Moyes - made mistakes but got a raw deal in terms of circumstances
Rodwell - lost his way. Turns up for training. Fulfils contractual obligations but doesn't apply himself. Opportunity to move to 3 clubs in January turned down by him.
Colback - "club" thought they could get better than him for less money
Communication with Short - Bain's hardly spoken to him until last few weeks. Bain can't plan without dialogue. Coleman knew financial status before contract. Coleman wanted to stay. Not about money.
Alvarez - atrocious deal before his time.
Grabban - asked to leave.
Academy status - no way will change on Bain's watch. Club in limbo. Can't discuss Business Plan but from his discussions with new people no intention to change.
Women's football - £780k/yr budget. Zero academy procurement budget. Made sense to disband women (some full-time/some part time - disjointed anyway)
Biggest frustration - inability to plan with a budget.
Why was Coleman sacked? Contractual issues. Takeover this week.
Concerts - home games at start of season. Some lucrative/some not. Likely to come back under new owners.
Rotten core - players haven't match club's identity. Player mentality no good. Culture of club no good.
Bain - no instruction from Short. No sustained budget. No 3 or 5 year plan.
If Short wrote off debt, didn't he want Short to invest earlier? "**** yes". Bain tried to get Short to invest.
Redundancies/his salary of £1m+ - he didn't apply for job, Short approached him. He didn't negotiate a single number, that was the package offered. 70 people released. Club was bloated. Lots of promotions from within. Needed clear out & justification of jobs.
What went wrong? - Squad better than position. Inability to plan in advance.
Click to expand...


Did he mention terms in Fletcher's contract where he has to play? Would love confirmation of that as I'm convinced we had play him and fear it was a decision which will lead to Maja and Asoro leaving the club and I wouldn't blame him when the club is actively making deals which limit their game time and experience. If true I think it's worse than the Alverez deal given the potential combined transfer fees if we keep them beyond 23.

Didn't know if it was Coleman or not to blame but after relegation was confirmed Fletcher continued to start. It made no sense to even pick the lad on the bench let alone starting him.
 
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Brian Storm said:
Did he mention terms in Fletcher's contract where he has to play? Would love confirmation of that as I'm convinced we had play him and fear it was a decision which will lead to Maja and Asoro leaving the club and I wouldn't blame him when the club is actively making deals which limit their game time and experience. If true I think it's worse than the Alverez deal given the potential combined transfer fees if we keep them beyond 23.

Didn't know if it was Coleman or not to blame but after relegation was confirmed Fletcher continued to start. It made no sense to even pick the lad on the bench let alone starting him.
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Yeh that was a strange dessision
There was no need to start fletcher.
Infact any of the loanees
We had plenty of our own players good enough or not.
 
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I agree Maja in particular has had a raw deal, he looked lethal pre season and must be feeling very low now the way things have gone, cant believe the Fletcher fiasco, if it was Coleman he deserved to be fired on that alone never mind the reluctance to try new faces in defence and mid field when it was crying out that the old brigade were taking us down.
 
clockstander said:
I agree Maja in particular has had a raw deal, he looked lethal pre season and must be feeling very low now the way things have gone, cant believe the Fletcher fiasco, if it was Coleman he deserved to be fired on that alone never mind the reluctance to try new faces in defence and mid field when it was crying out that the old brigade were taking us down.
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Probably just me here like but every time I've seen Maja he's been dog **** and comfortably worse than Fletcher (who I also think is ****) Asoro on the other hand has been very good whenever I've seen him reminds me of Watmore with a better touch.

Not only has Maja looked poor he hasn't even looked interested in putting any effort in which at least to my opinion anyway Fletcher has.

Wouldn't give a toss if Maja left but I honestly can't see anyone wanting him Asoro on the other hand I'll be gutted to see leave but think he probably will.
 
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Its all about opinions RWL and that is as it should be, strangely enough the two loanees that scored against Wolves had very good games, and Clark-Salter was man of the match in the last England U23 outing, if these lads had shown that sort of form for us at the start we may have just stayed up. I also think Coleman had plenty of opportunities to play both Asoro and Maja up front with Fletcher but stuck with the lazy options, the two Macs, each time.
 
Vincemac said:
Yeh that was a strange dessision
There was no need to start fletcher.
Infact any of the loanees
We had plenty of our own players good enough or not.
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This what made me think we had to play him. I'd love an explination, not sure we'll ever get it though
 
RedNWhite4Life said:
Probably just me here like but every time I've seen Maja he's been dog **** and comfortably worse than Fletcher (who I also think is ****) Asoro on the other hand has been very good whenever I've seen him reminds me of Watmore with a better touch.

Not only has Maja looked poor he hasn't even looked interested in putting any effort in which at least to my opinion anyway Fletcher has.

Wouldn't give a toss if Maja left but I honestly can't see anyone wanting him Asoro on the other hand I'll be gutted to see leave but think he probably will.
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Maja has a long way to go through, as does Asoro, both fast tracked, they should only have joined the U23s this season. Fletcher has nearly 4 years head start on them. given the gulf in age it's understandable Fletcher looks ahead. Not out young player to develop though and that's the issue more than ability for me as I'm confident they'll both reach Fletcher's level with ease in coming years.
 
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