Dodgy keeper

[Fez]

I will say, my initial post was to get the views of something I was seeing. I spend 45 minutes every home game with him directly in front of me, his performances were getting more and more untidy. It's not the usual thread I start or even get involved in, I was going to post prior to the Leicester game, but thought it would get into a Marshall/ Jak thread. I had to after that performance and couldn't believe the desperate reactions, almost as if I'd committed blasphemy. I've carried on with a bit of harmless banter, but see some are getting upset by this. I take no pleasure from that, so aren't gonna comment on this thread until after the next game, I hope it's to comment on a better all round performance from Jak.

Elsewhere, from here, are those other commentators - newspapers, radio, TV, professional media observers. As well as the ex-professional players who speak well of him.

We still have a very long way to go and getting behind the players is critical to arriving at the right result. Jak has been central to Silvas rejuvenation of City. Nowt wrong with reasoned criticism, I wasn't impressed with his run-around the game before and said so, but gratuitous criticism, mischievous or not, grows arms and legs and soon dominates, rather than being an aside. I to, just as it now seems you did, thought it would/could/should have been absorbed, which is the norm; it was my main point, as I have always accepted other opinion - but it wasn't, and here we are.

 

[Fez]

I have to say I'm surprised at the reaction you've had on here to be honest.

I don't think anyone at the club should be exempt from criticism if somebody has a valid point to make on here.

......

People have different perspectives based on what they've seen and how they've interpreted what they've seen. I doubt more than a handful of people would agree with every one of my opinions above. This should be a place that allows for such discussion though, positive or negative, regardless of how soon after a victory it is posted.

It was never about being able to criticise, that was always accepted and always will be.

It was about exaggerating the mistakes to create threads that could only be argumentative and negative, detracting from what was really important - 3 points. Chazz posted a thread to get reaction - that was totally clear, it's what he enjoys doing; but there was enough already. Nothing more than that. The threads already existed.

If it had been Patty I think a different view would have been taken.

I didn't include your many points as they have been discussed, quite reasonably, by us all at length.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

Yep, I could make a threat slating Maguire because his passing has been quite poor recently and on several occasions has been turned over. But if I made such a thread I'd be lambasted for criticising one of our better players.

There seems a desire lately to go over the top with criticism to appear 'funny' or 'cool' which is utterly perplexing.

Criticism of Marshall didn't reach the heights some of the Jak criticism is at at the moment.

 

[Benjo]

Regarding Marshall it definitely did reach those heights. It went much further IMO. I don't think there has been much exaggeration with Jak either to be honest. I had similar thoughts during the last couple of home games without looking on here and when I had those thoughts I wasn't trying to appear funny or cool to myself.

 

[originallambrettaman]

Criticism of Marshall didn't reach the heights some of the Jak criticism is at at the moment.

The vitriol aimed at Marshall was completely ridiculous and on a whole different level to anything posted on here about Jakupovic. He was regularly accused of being the worst ever keeper in the Premier League, being entirely responsible for all our heavy losses and all sorts of other nonsense.

I don't get the fuss, there really hasn't been that much criticism of Jakupovic, he's been excellent this season, but if he does make mistakes, people shouldn't be attacked for pointing them out.

 

[GLP]

In fairness our average goals per game conceded with Marshall or Jakupovic are as different as night and day. So, given that the defensive personnel is largely the same (Frog and Elab) added - what is the overall reason for the huge contrast in outcomes?

Marshall 15 Games no clean sheets 2.47 goals conceded per game.

Jakupovic 13 Games 3 clean sheets 1.31 goals conceded per game.

Given the criticism for those that criticised Marshall? Was he just having a bad day at the office - repeatedly?

 

[SydneyTiger14]

Regarding Marshall it definitely did reach those heights. It went much further IMO. I don't think there has been much exaggeration with Jak either to be honest. I had similar thoughts during the last couple of home games without looking on here and when I had those thoughts I wasn't trying to appear funny or cool to myself.

There's one thread on this board directed at Marshall and it was made after he was dropped.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

The vitriol aimed at Marshall was completely ridiculous and on a whole different level to anything posted on here about Jakupovic. He was regularly accused of being the worst ever keeper in the Premier League, being entirely responsible for all our heavy losses and all sorts of other nonsense.

I don't get the fuss, there really hasn't been that much criticism of Jakupovic, he's been excellent this season, but if he does make mistakes, people shouldn't be attacked for pointing them out.

Marshall was statistically one of the worst current pl keepers. That's a fact. Stating that fact is not ridiculous and the defense of him was crazy. Then there were those smugly saying that Silva would stick with Marshall in the league, proving how little we little people knew, and whattya know he brought jak in.

 

[Fez]

Regarding Marshall it definitely did reach those heights. It went much further IMO. I don't think there has been much exaggeration with Jak either to be honest. I had similar thoughts during the last couple of home games without looking on here and when I had those thoughts I wasn't trying to appear funny or cool to myself.

I agree about Marshall. If you were reading around that time you would know I criticised the errors that were clear and gave good example, including video to support it - even so it was stil opinion. I didn't start threads targeted at him and when the criticisn moved into exaggeration I spoke out against it. As I have said it is about keeping balance, being moderate in applying the criticism.

 

[Fez]

The vitriol aimed at Marshall was completely ridiculous and on a whole different level to anything posted on here about Jakupovic. He was regularly accused of being the worst ever keeper in the Premier League, being entirely responsible for all our heavy losses and all sorts of other nonsense.

I don't get the fuss, there really hasn't been that much criticism of Jakupovic, he's been excellent this season, but if he does make mistakes, people shouldn't be attacked for pointing them out.

Who has been attacked for pointing it out? The criticism and extra threads were questioned and criticised as unnecessary. If someone was attacked I'd say it was me for pointing it out - although it's not something that bothers me.

I think your own words spell it out; you say he has been excellent. Read the comments and that is far away from what they say - they also go on to criticise him for having a bit of charactor, ffs - something I think is ridiculous when we are in dire need of charactor in the squad. Silva lets him be interviewed for a reason, but I suppose he must be wrong, too.

 

[Plum]

I have to say I'm surprised at the reaction you've had on here to be honest.

I don't think anyone at the club should be exempt from criticism if somebody has a valid point to make on here.

I agree that Jakupovic is becoming untidy (at the moment). I also agree Bruce is too defensive. I personally think Grosicki has no end product (at the moment) and think Elmohamady is a waste of a shirt for numerous reasons.

I don't agree that Hernandez has attitude problems and I don't agree that Marshall was at fault for a lot of the goals we conceded. Unlike Charon-the-ferryman I think Alex Bruce was an excellent servant for the club and was a very underrated player.

I also think Markovic has the ability to be a real game changer for us if he can just catch a bit of a break. I think he's incredibly skillful with the ball at his feet and could turn into a real gem if he finds a bit of clinical form quickly.

People have different perspectives based on what they've seen and how they've interpreted what they've seen. I doubt more than a handful of people would agree with every one of my opinions above. This should be a place that allows for such discussion though, positive or negative, regardless of how soon after a victory it is posted.

I think you might be surprised at how many people would (quietly) agree with your opinions. Count me in.

 

[originallambrettaman]

There's one thread on this board directed at Marshall and it was made after he was dropped.

There were loads of them, I got sick of merging them and the bashing he took was at a completely different level to anything that's been aimed at Jakupovic.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

There were loads of them, I got sick of merging them and the bashing he took was at a completely different level to anything that's been aimed at Jakupovic.

Probably because he's a fraud of a keeper I guess.

 

[Benjo]

Jakupovic came back into regular contention when Phelan left. I'd say that is more responsible for the turnaround in our fortunes. Marshall might even do a job under Silva for all we know, but for now Jakupovic is performing well. It just seems like there are some mistakes creeping in that don't seem to have cost us... whether they will if they continue or not, I don't know.

One thing I will say is that after the infamous Sheffield Wednesday game, I really had it in for Jak. He's bided his time and improved dramatically since and he's proved me wrong in the long run. I still see errors creeping into his game though.

 

[Howden Tigress]

OK, can we have a truce now over the battle of the keepers?! Let’s not forget this was a massive pressure game, we don’t usually “do” pressure and bottle it, had we lost we’d have been 9 points adrift of them, as it is we are back in with a chance. The players must have felt the pressure, more so Jak, any mistakes/fumbles he makes are magnified and usually end up with a goal, outfield players can hope team mates can dig them out. (My son is a goalie, believe me, I feel his pressure.)

Jak, made a couple of excellent saves to keep us in it, also had a few wobbly moments and got lucky. About time we had luck on our side, how many times this season and last have we moaned about not having luck on our side. His distribution wasn’t great, I think he needs to not get carried away by his own over confidence and hype.

So, lets chill and look forward to our next 3 points, sooner rather than later.

 

[originallambrettaman]

Probably because he's a fraud of a keeper I guess.

 

[BobbyD]

Marshall is terrible. No idea why he was played ahead of Jakupovic just because you spent big money on him. It's like us persisting with torres when drogba was far more productive than him or united playing carlton pogba irrespective of form, tactics or anything or pep sticking with stones.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

Marshall is terrible. No idea why he was played ahead of Jakupovic just because you spent big money on him. It's like us persisting with torres when drogba was far more productive than him or united playing carlton pogba irrespective of form, tactics or anything or pep sticking with stones.

Don't say that, you'll make baby Jesus cry. Or something.

And actually Man City are the perfect comparison, Caballero vs Bravo.

 

[bum_chinned_crab]

The recent direction of this thread is a bit daft. The vitriol towards Marshall was on a completely different level to The Jak - that's not debateable, it's just FACT. Whether or not it was deserved is what can actually be debated.

For my own two penneth I'd say it's a trait of us and indeed football fans by and large, that when things are either bad or good the likelihood is it'll be grossly exaggerated either way. We're not known as being the most level-headed of specimens.

 

[Chilton's Hundreds]

Phelan dropped Jak as soon as Marshall signed even though Jak had a very good start to the season.

He was dropped for no reason.

The anti-Marshall feeling should have been directed at Phelan for benching an in-form goalie.