Dave Whelan

My comment was regard to my rather tame thread on what Maggie had done for football and hence was on topic was pulled but this thread which is clearly far more contentious than mine has been allowed to stand.

That is not about opinion it is about bias.

 

The shame of it all is that many people these days have no respect for the dead, and even less for the living, it is a sign of the times.

 

I am happy to stand for a period of silence for someone like Prof Sir Robert Edwards who did a great deal in his life time to make peoples lives happier and who was a really nice man but not for a politician of any colour and I include my champion Harold Wilson in that.

For those of you with longer memories perhaps you'll agree that Attlee did more to change society for the good of all rather than a small minority of very wealthy people as we witnessed under Thatcher and are experiencing again with the Posh boys who are supposed to be running the country at the moment.

 

Thatcher divided opinion like no other politician I can think of. No discussion about her will ever end in agreement.

The issue of the minute's silence is altogether different. Why? Is my question. Why chose a football match? Should we have silences at theatres, places of work, cinemas, night clubs. What is it about football authorities that they feel the need to do this all the time? There are far too may minutes of silence, or clapping, which I find even worse.

November 11th I can accept.

 

They're normally for football related incidents, to be fair, like when we had one for Markus' death.

 

Some would argue Thatcher's 'every man for himself' philosophy may have contributed to that

 

Admittedly, some you can understand but its getting to be like the kit man's cat dies and we have a minute's silence.

 

Im 42, only a child when she came to power,
I remember the strikes, 4 days weeks, TV going off, Energy shortages etc
She inherited a Country going down the pan and made us one of the strongest in Europe without joining ,(T Blair gave them rights up so he could be the First European PM or what ever its called)
She stopped the UK giving away coal to Europe, now we can charge the highest coal prices, but the downside was it devistated community that relied on Mineing.
Then there`s the Poll Tax nuff said, she was far from perfect, but she wasn`t 2 faced and never jumped on the popular bandwagon likes most of the MPs and PM we have now.

 

Well you've given a pretty good outline of your opinion on her there, but you haven't said whether or not there should be a minute's silence!

The opposite of that is probably preferable to be honest, we're just going to get into an interminable debate if everyone says what they think of her.

 

No, no silence, she had nout to do with Football, and it would be mainly Boo`s , I do think some people need to see the bigger picture.

 

Don't want to get into a debate about this, but I think on the list of faults should be the ridiculous increase in the amount of homeless as a result of layoffs in the manufacturing industries, not just mining, and increased difficulty to get welfare. A minute's silence wouldn't go down well with football supporters because many of them are probably still suffering as a direct result.

 

It is staggering that so many of the people that i've seen complaining about Margaret Thatcher don't seem old enough to actually have experienced how bad she was. Looking back it seems incredible that she got elected once let alone three times and some of the views she expressed such as regarding Nelson Mandela as a terrorist seem extreme and completely out of touch with the common consensus. Dominic Sandbrook summed it up correctly when he opined that that many of the changes credited to Maggie would have happened anyway and that she simply speeded up the process. Historians in the future will be less likely to credit her with the kind of achievements some of the "pro" contributors like Fran have done and I think the social consequences of her actions were so heinous as to make the suggestion of a one minute silence at football grounds unpalatable more most right thinking people. Even issues like crushing the unions have proved to be a grave mistake as many employers have exploited their workers very badly since the 1990's with the unions being helpless to help upheld European law regarding issues such as working hours. Granted that everyone is used to working long hours these days but I think this culture was onlysomething created by the Tories under Margaret Thatcher. When you hear of doctors working 70+ hours a week you wonder what is wrong with this country. As I said earlier, Thatcher created an nation that serves the economy as opposed to an economy that works for the benefit of the people.

Whilst I agree that it is unreasonable to celebrate the passing of anyone, I think with the likes of MT is is equally inappropriate to celebrate a life that created so much misery and has now created issues for a seconf generation as even "New Labour" were unable or unwilling to fix. The fact that she was so anti football makes it a mockery that the likes of Whelan feel she should have been honoured. She may not have been a tyrant like Hitler but her support for the likes of Pinochet and Botha illustrated that she was no respector of human rights either. It is telling that the "Troubles" in Ireland abated after her departure as her policies were counter-productive and it could be argued (if you wish) that her removal from the political scene allowed a politican like Gerry Adams ,who was previously demonised, to enter the democratic process. In many respects, the world is a better place with her removal from office but if there is one thing that can be celebrated about her tenure it is that the British public no longer has the stomach for extremist and reactionary politicians such as herself and I feel this is something that is of benefit to democracy.

 

This is much the most sensible (and correct IMHO) piece written about the minute's silence idea - http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/apr/10/marina-hyde-minute-silence-fans-decide

 

Sadly you only need a few people to ruin a minutes silence and make it embarassing...not worth doing it (and I am a Thatcher fan). It's not as if we always do it for ex-PMs.

 

I don't have strong political views and the main reason I haven't posted on this thread, as despite the cloak that has been veiled over it to make this look like a thread about football, it is a thread filled with political opinion. Some discrete. Some not.

The pro and anti views on this show bias at times to an extreme. I have never liked how people take politics as they do a football team. I'd never see the good in Pompey because I'm a Saint. Some people will never see good in red because they are a blue and vice versa in politics, refusing to see any good in the other side. It's a it tribal and immature in football, but probably forgivable; in other life it's a little too blind sided for my liking.

Too many views on this are tainted.

The OP is about a minutes silence at a football match not politics. It probably isn't right to have one.

Godders complaint his thread was banned for being too political. I thought political threads were not meant to be on here.

 

That is spot on. Its a bit like the players wearing their 'respect' armbands whilst haranguing the referee.

 

It is my birthday on Saturday and I have written to the club and have asked them to play a particular piece of music for me in celebration.

It is a tune from the Wizard of Oz that I have been humming for about a week now.

I don't hold out much hope of it being played which will be a real shame as I know many fans would enjoy singing along to it.

Perhaps we should all sing it during the proposed but disastrous and very misguided minutes silence.

This will help if you don't know the words: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHJoj9IqeKg

 

I detect some sexism in all of this (and I am not a person who sees sexism in everything) ...I doubt it would have happened if she had been a man. Would have still been disliked by those who didn't agree, but not this over the top vitriol. She had the nerve to take people on and win...anyone who beat the French and got us a massive rebate from the EC should have a medal struck.

 

Come on Fran the Wizard of Oz isn't sexist in fact I would suggest it is the first feminist movie.

The three weak "men" are all saved by a young girl and the lead male character is proved not to be mighty and powerful but a big softy. What more could you want.