Dave Whelan

The family that attempted a coup in equatorial guinea?

Pretty sure the weapons she sold to Saddam were used for it though.

 

In a slightly related topic, I wonder what MP thinks of the latest Falklands stuff?

 

Well being Argentinian, he probably thinks they should be Argentinian, but really, who cares? If he expresses any sort of opinion about it he'll be greatly overreaching his brief.

 

I lived through the period when the Unions were destroying Britain and making us look weak and bankrupt. The Unions did a massive amount of good for workers, but they gained too much power and kept coming out in sympathy. Every week there were strikes when, for instance, the buses didn't run because of a miners strike or something. Mrs Thatcher rebuilt the country and gave us standing on the world stage. She stood up to the French for a start...we were once again a power in Europe. She fought the Falklands war because otherwise if we were seen as weak we could have had invasions in other territories. History will revere her as a PM second only to Churchill.

However, I think it is foolish to hold a minutes silence for anyone who is not universally respected/loved. It is asking for division in the crowds (and possibly trouble) and makes no sense. It isn't as if we do it for every PM.

 

Would it be bad taste to use microsoft paint to re-write history at this point?

 

I find it hard to understand the 'against working class' argument though. Turnouts in those elections were all very high in the 70%-80% region not like the Blair last election which was under 60%

How many of that 70-80% are we suggesting were not working class? And by that merit how did she manage to get elected 3 times? The Math don't add up. Half the working class Must have voted for her

Don't think there should be a minute's silence though. It would just bring attention to the Liverpool fans and then there will be too much focus on them 'good or bad' focus.

 

The country flourished and that benefited everyone, so of course working class people voted for Thatcher. They were in work and no longer got called out on strike without pay or being prevented from getting to work by militants. Most people at the time were cheering her on, so don't get fooled by the vociferous and embittered who have heard about it at the knees of their grandparents.

 

Well, he is, because he's implying that we should apply the same rules to how we feel historically about two people that we were not affected by - one who committed mass genocide, without drawing any distinction between man, woman, or child in attempting to wipe a race of people off the entire planet for all time, and then he went, took his children with him; and one lady who pissed off a lot of people, and made a lot of people's lives hell with her political decisions - for which she nevertheless broadly had a mandate and which were carried out within the legal framework - and who the public voted in not once, not twice, but three times.
I don’t agree with the poster who feels you can’t say something disgusting about someone you weren’t affected by, so we’re on the same page there. I just don’t believe you can try to make that comparison of ‘You can’t say x about y if you don’t also apply the logic to z’ if they are so poles apart. I would not say that Thatcher was evil, no matter what misery she caused. Hitler, on the other hand, was; and one can certainly apply different rules to people who are evil to those who are not.

 

I was really staggered by Dave Whelan's proposal as well as the support he received in this respect from John Madjeski. In many respects the passing of a great national figure might warrant a minutes silence at footballs grounds but I don't think it is at all appropriate for politicians. As commented, the silence will be unlikely to be observed in many football grounds , especially where held in memory of someone quite as devisive as Margaret Thatcher destroyed many of the communities associated with some of the bigger clubs.

There was a really good articel yesterday on the BBC NEws site by the historian Dominic Sandbrook who pointed out that many of the things Margaret Thatcher took credit for would have ultimately happened without her. Regardless of your politics ( and I would consider myself to be pretty left wing), I don't think it is acceptable to commerate anyone whose policies had such dire social consequences. I think she was symptomatic of a view that people serve the economy and not the economy serve the people.

What I would add is that why should football show Margaret Thatcher any respect? She had no love of the game or any sport for that matter. Given her comments after Hillsborough and the subsequent findings of the recent enquiry which left the govt of the time looking almost criminal and cruel in their mis-informed stance, I feel football owes her nothing. Her comments about hooliganism and her associating this social malaise with sport was also a disgrace.

I would also wonder how Pochettino would have felt had the crowd shown sympathy given his nationality and the issue out of football?

Football and politics don' t often go hand-in-hand but in the case of Margaret Thatcher, her world view was so contrary to footballs (notional) ideals regarding sportsmanship / fair play / racial tolerance, etc , that I feel the one minute silence would be very inappropriate. The proposal of Whelan was always fraught with too many difficulties and I think in places like Liverpool would be extremely insensitive.

 

It's clear from looking at a few other Boards that many clubs fans would not observe a silence. A bad idea.

 

Hello, if you want to speculate on the meaning of something I said, you are able to address me directly you know

As I've already said, I was drawing no comparisons between the two, merely arguing with the logic used. I could (and perhaps should) have used a less controversial example, but Thatcher herself is controversial and he was the first controversial historical figure who sprang to mind.

How you feel about a particular character from history is your own business. But I don't agree with the original statement that you can't judge someone if you weren't around to experience them first-hand. That's the point I was making. I have nothing to say on here about Thatcher herself.

 

My own political views are not something I would be prepared to discuss with strangers in any event. However to address the OP original question in regards to a minutes silence...........I think perhaps Mrs thatcher actually gained more notoriety rather than fame although it may be a subject of debate perhaps.
As for a minutes silence for a politician I don't seem to remember ever having a minutes silence for any of the others not even Winston Churchill. Come to that I don't remember having one for our late King either at a football match......unless of course the old memories slipping up again.

 

Beddy do I detect some double standards at work?

 

The only thing that might possibly unite both sets of fans before the game...

It seems to be a growing trend of having a minutes applause for the rich and famous. Why not simply have a minutes applause every week for all the football supporters who die every week; selective.

I know some people on here are complaining that posts are 'shocking' and 'outrageous' or 'how could anyone say that', however I think it is good that everyone gives their view. So long as people think, it is good to hear different peoples opinions and perceptions, however different from our own. Unfortunately otherwise we are heading towards a sanitised world where everyone has to think and parrot the same opinions or be a pariah, deluged by media uproar.

 

Fran, We didn't look weak and bankrupt. We WERE weak and bankrupt, and as for the estates in the north. They are as they were. In some ways they are better because some of the houses are now owned privately and that seems to have calmed the whole areas down a bit. That and the internet/PS3s/Sky keeping people in their houses and off the streets

Something had to be done back then or we as a country were going under 'Greece Style'. Was always going to please some and really upset others. Big decisions always affect people and can never be 100% positive.

However I don't think there should be a minute's silence. I have however voiced my disgust on facebook to anyone including those on my friends list that has posted vile banners or such like. People who didn't like her should just say 'Good Riddance' and then be done with it, not ridicule, post disgusting banners and use their 'precious' time on the streets protesting.

If people care so much about the huge security operation that will surround the funeral then they are hypocrites. After all, if there were to be no fools marching up there trying to cause disturbances the security cost would have been much less. Yes the headline talks of 10m but most of that is the security issue. The very ones who are voicing their hatred are the ones that are causing the waste of money.

Oh and yes I am a blue BUT I also live on one of those northern estates that have supposedly been badly effected through the eighties onwards.

 

Well it wasn`t the Scottish working classes - she never have got in once, never mind 3 times if the Scottish vote was representative (it would have been Labour/Liberal).

 

Which suggests a massive amount of English working class did vote for her. anyway this is football, the 1 minute silence is a bad idea. Let's not fall out

 

Just seen this quote from Russell Brand regarding Thatcher's death. I'm not usually one to dwell on the philosophies of Brand, but thought this was quite pertinent:

Interestingly, one mate of mine, a proper leftie, in his heyday all Red Wedge and right-on punch-ups, was melancholy. "I thought I'd be overjoyed, but really it's just … another one bites the dust …" This demonstrates, I suppose, that if you opposed Thatcher's ideas it was likely because of their lack of compassion, which is really just a word for love. If love is something you cherish, it is hard to glean much joy from death, even in one's enemies.

 

I posted the entire article in Beefy's Corner this morning. I think he got it spot on.

 

Nah mate...None at all.......Just an opinion..........