Ct...wtf

[neverdullinhull]

I've just returned from London so missed yesterday's posts on the ballot.

I'm on the CTWD committee but missed the committee's discussion over the press release on the ballot.

To be honest I don't see anything in OLM's post of the press release as a declaration of war. I think it is a reasonable request and a simple aspiration for the ballot to be independent and cover two topics. Do you want the name change, do you want the Allams, covers both points that have long been discussed on here. I accept that Assem Allam may reject it out of hand, but that really is up to him.

The sale of the club is up to Assem Allam. There is no way a committee of 20 people could force him to sell it at a knock down price to a Supporters Trust. There is no way, after the last few months he would sell it to a Supporters Trust arising from a merger of the Tigers Co-op and CTWD. If he is prepared to go to these lengths to get revenge on the City Council for not giving him the stadium why do you think he'd talk to us about the future ownership of the club?

We asked for people to pay £2 but pointed out they could donate more if the wanted. Most of our members did just that. Simple maths shows that if the average donation was £50 we'd have collected close to £100,000. I sure even you don't think we've raised anywhere near that. We have sold £10,000 worth of scarves. I'm not sure what that raised for the campaign but I would guess well over a £1,000.

You may ask why don't I know. The answer is simple, after working with them for the past few months I trust them. We have put hours of our own time into this campaign and to be honest I resent people suggesting we use the money for drink and paying our own electricity bills.

We have no puppet master pulling our strings.

Unless Assem Allam pulls a rabbit out of a hat and the campaign over the name continues I will not be standing for election at the general meeting. I feel that I have done what I can.

I support the creation of a merged Supporters Trust. One day I'd like to see Hull City 100% owned by the fans. At the beginning I thought that was possible under Assem Allam. I know now that it will be virtually impossible until he sells the club. I would like him to consider what's happened to him and the club over this season, contact the Council, build bridges with all the fans, including CTWD, look at alternative ways to make us a sustainable Premier League football club and regain the respect he had on that afternoon when Watford failed to beat Leeds United and we got automatic promotion.

Whether he does that is solely up to him.

We campaigned to get the FA to say no and despite some people saying it was impossible at the beginning we may just do that on the 9th of April 2014.

Now if you wanted a serious answer you'll read what I've said and give me a serious response. Any further questions you have I'll try and answer myself, if not I'll take them back to the committee.

I don't think 100% or even majority ownership is viable or desirable in this day and age unless you want to run a Conference team

 

[Boothferry2Wembley]

Something's been bugging me about CTWD for a little while now, as more regular readers will know. Something niggling me. Something just didn't seem *right*.

The dignified silence. The refusal to make it personal about Dr Allam or the Allams ownership of the club, despite the clear advantages and ease of doing this. Respectful almost.

It just seemed....off.

Yesterdays press release though, that took me be surprise. From dignified and respectful CTWD has jumped head first into all out assault on the Allams. All pretense is now gone. CTWD has declared war on the Allams.

On the face of it, and this is what puzzled me at first, it doesn't make sense. CTWD have been calling for a poll for months now. They're going to get one, and even if it goes against them, they can't lose, because the poll won't affect the name change decision by the FA. So why make a statement clearly designed to rile the owners and make them react against CTWD? Why do CTWD suddenly need to appear to be in the driving seat? What is their end game?

I've said before that I believe they're lining up someone like Adam Pearson to come in as a backer for a fans share of the club, but now, now I think its more than that and I have a theory.

I think CTWD are being used as a distraction by someone. Someone who means to buy the Allams out or at least take over the club. They are being used to discredit the Allams in the eyes of the fans and to make the Allams despair at what the hell they've gotten in to then force them into a situation whereby they actually appear to want to leave.

Considering this is being effected right after we finally have a brilliant manager, a decent team, some measure of success and a much better run club than previously, getting the club right now at a knockdown price would be quite a clever ploy.

Question is though, who? Who could possibly be local enough or know enough about the club and the area, and be prepared to do that?

Adam is the obvious one, but there's someone else who has been conspicuously absent, despite being Hull through and through, and playing for the club was always his dream. Yes, St Nick.

Bear with me here, it's an outrageous suggestion I know, but, it IS plausible.

Surely the dream for CTWD, or at least a few of its key members would be to see St Nick and Lord Adam riding across the Bridge, to save the club from the Evil Dictatorial Allam family. Explains the slightly puzzling lack of ANY statement from St Nick, or from Adam for that matter. I suspect Adam has "unfinished business" with us, and could probably bring some people together from outside the City to have enough money, and of course St Nick also possibly still has an axe to grind, and is also not too badly off in the moolah department. He'd make an awesome figurehead too.

CTWD (Or the Tiger Co-Op if you want to continue with that smokescreen) could be given enough shares so they don't come under Fit and Proper scrutiny, as a way of thanking them for their efforts over the last few months. It's almost perfect.

It would also be devious, manipulative and riddled with lies and deception of course, so that should be where my theory falls on its arse because obviously, CTWD aren't like that.

Anyone else want to suggest different puppet masters?

We've seen claims from CTWD that they don't have spare cash, that sending out the things people order cost more than the charges being made for them, so someone is filling in that shortfall. Yes some people just donate, I get that, but I wonder if CTWD is open and honest enough, with nothing to hide, to release details of donations to the campaign? Not the 2 quidders, not even the 10 or 20 quidders, say anyone who has donated over £100? Even though confidentiality shouldn't be an issue, that will be trotted out, so how about a list with the names removed so we can all see how much unknown individuals have donated? It's obviously not going to be thousands, CTWD doesn't have that sort of cash, we know that, but I'd be slightly suspicious of anyone bunging them more than 100 quid. This is of course assuming that stuff like the presentation, the video etc were all funded purely from official CTWD funds, and nothing has been funded outside of that.

Now, I realise and appreciate this thread will become a target for the foot soldiers and apologists of CTWD. There is really no need for the name calling, it's all been done, and just adds noise. It also doesn't bother me, and frankly just makes you look like an angry internet warrior. See if you can stick to just denying my theories, explaining why and telling me what your thoughts are if it happened as I theorise.

It would also be really helpful if you could state if you're a paid up member of CTWD, just a supporter or something more within CTWD, so we can understand your role and put some credence on your response.

I'm away in London now for the rest of the day, so I look forward to seeing if a) this thread still exists and b) any intelligent debate and comments.

Comedy gold, some of the best yet! Happy Tiger, take a bow son.

 

[Tobes]

Tell me the OP is taking the piss?

If not, he's bark at the moon mental, he's at kopite levels of conspiracy theory there.

 

[Dr.Stanley O'Google, HCFC]

I read that as sultana, I guess it would make him our currant owner.

Now you're raisin a chuckle....

 

[originallambrettaman]

Tell me the OP is taking the piss?

If not, he's bark at the moon mental, he's at kopite levels of conspiracy theory there.

Unfortunately, Happy has an unhealthy obsession with the fact that CTWD want to build a supporters trust, once the name change nonsense is out of the way.

 

[TigerinSydney]

The OP is a fantastic example of the dangers of spending too much time arguing with your computer screen. The mind ends up playing tricks with you...

 

[Tobes]

Unfortunately, Happy has an unhealthy obsession with the fact that CTWD want to build a supporters trust, once the name change nonsense is out of the way.

Personally, whilst a noble idea in principle, the scale of investment that you'd be talking about to have a meaningful stake (assuming you could even purchase it) makes the idea a bit of a Noddy one imo mate. It's been tried at our club and across the park, both failed to gain anywhere near the level of support to make the idea even vaguely viable.

None of which should make it a matter of derision however, as you're only trying to give the fans a permanent voice, which can never be a bad thing imo.

 

[renegadetiger]

Ace thread this.

Happy Tiger. You seriously need a hobby, or a girlfriend, or a ****, or a CAT scan, or something.

 

[Amin Arrears]

I don't think 100% or even majority ownership is viable or desirable in this day and age unless you want to run a Conference team

You just don't get it. These nut jobs at CTWD are dinosaurs who crave for the old days when the club was almost exclusive to them, they're jealous of the new fan enjoying success on the back of their years hard work and torment. In taking over the club now they would be in a position to raise piles of cash from player sales etc. making each one of the committee members multi millionaires whilst faking the club back to the good old days, it's win win.

Happy Tiger truly is on to something.

 

[originallambrettaman]

Personally, whilst a noble idea in principle, the scale of investment that you'd be talking about to have a meaningful stake (assuming you could even purchase it) makes the idea a bit of a Noddy one imo mate. It's been tried at our club and across the park, both failed to gain anywhere near the level of support to make the idea even vaguely viable.

None of which should make it a matter of derision however, as you're only trying to give the fans a permanent voice, which can never be a bad thing imo.

We don't actually expect our current owner would give up any of his ownership, despite the fact that he's said on several occasions that he's very much in favour of fan ownership, his actions paint a very different picture. But I believe that every club should have a supporters trust, even if they don't have any ownership involvement, they can still play in important part in an advisory capacity, to at least give the fans a voice at the club(many members of the CTWD committee were part of the now defunct Hull City Fan Liaison Group and we'd like to see that return in some form).

 

[Trumpton Tiger.]

Something's been bugging me about CTWD for a little while now, as more regular readers will know. Something niggling me. Something just didn't seem *right*.

The dignified silence. The refusal to make it personal about Dr Allam or the Allams ownership of the club, despite the clear advantages and ease of doing this. Respectful almost.

.

It just seemed....off.

Yesterdays press release though, that took me be surprise. From dignified and respectful CTWD has jumped head first into all out assault on the Allams. All pretense is now gone. CTWD has declared war on the Allams.

On the face of it, and this is what puzzled me at first, it doesn't make sense. CTWD have been calling for a poll for months now. They're going to get one, and even if it goes against them, they can't lose, because the poll won't affect the name change decision by the FA. So why make a statement clearly designed to rile the owners and make them react against CTWD? Why do CTWD suddenly need to appear to be in the driving seat? What is their end game?

I've said before that I believe they're lining up someone like Adam Pearson to come in as a backer for a fans share of the club, but now, now I think its more than that and I have a theory.

I think CTWD are being used as a distraction by someone. Someone who means to buy the Allams out or at least take over the club. They are being used to discredit the Allams in the eyes of the fans and to make the Allams despair at what the hell they've gotten in to then force them into a situation whereby they actually appear to want to leave.

Considering this is being effected right after we finally have a brilliant manager, a decent team, some measure of success and a much better run club than previously, getting the club right now at a knockdown price would be quite a clever ploy.

Question is though, who? Who could possibly be local enough or know enough about the club and the area, and be prepared to do that?

Adam is the obvious one, but there's someone else who has been conspicuously absent, despite being Hull through and through, and playing for the club was always his dream. Yes, St Nick.

Bear with me here, it's an outrageous suggestion I know, but, it IS plausible.

Surely the dream for CTWD, or at least a few of its key members would be to see St Nick and Lord Adam riding across the Bridge, to save the club from the Evil Dictatorial Allam family. Explains the slightly puzzling lack of ANY statement from St Nick, or from Adam for that matter. I suspect Adam has "unfinished business" with us, and could probably bring some people together from outside the City to have enough money, and of course St Nick also possibly still has an axe to grind, and is also not too badly off in the moolah department. He'd make an awesome figurehead too.

CTWD (Or the Tiger Co-Op if you want to continue with that smokescreen) could be given enough shares so they don't come under Fit and Proper scrutiny, as a way of thanking them for their efforts over the last few months. It's almost perfect.

It would also be devious, manipulative and riddled with lies and deception of course, so that should be where my theory falls on its arse because obviously, CTWD aren't like that.

Anyone else want to suggest different puppet masters?

We've seen claims from CTWD that they don't have spare cash, that sending out the things people order cost more than the charges being made for them, so someone is filling in that shortfall. Yes some people just donate, I get that, but I wonder if CTWD is open and honest enough, with nothing to hide, to release details of donations to the campaign? Not the 2 quidders, not even the 10 or 20 quidders, say anyone who has donated over £100? Even though confidentiality shouldn't be an issue, that will be trotted out, so how about a list with the names removed so we can all see how much unknown individuals have donated? It's obviously not going to be thousands, CTWD doesn't have that sort of cash, we know that, but I'd be slightly suspicious of anyone bunging them more than 100 quid. This is of course assuming that stuff like the presentation, the video etc were all funded purely from official CTWD funds, and nothing has been funded outside of that.

Now, I realise and appreciate this thread will become a target for the foot soldiers and apologists of CTWD. There is really no need for the name calling, it's all been done, and just adds noise. It also doesn't bother me, and frankly just makes you look like an angry internet warrior. See if you can stick to just denying my theories, explaining why and telling me what your thoughts are if it happened as I theorise.

It would also be really helpful if you could state if you're a paid up member of CTWD, just a supporter or something more within CTWD, so we can understand your role and put some credence on your response.

I'm away in London now for the rest of the day, so I look forward to seeing if a) this thread still exists and b) any intelligent debate and comments.

It's a campaign against the name change, nothing else. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

[Tobes]

We don't actually expect our current owner would give up any of his ownership, despite the fact that he's said on several occasions that he's very much in favour of fan ownership, his actions paint a very different picture. But I believe that every club should have a supporters trust, even if they don't have any ownership involvement, they can still play in important part in an advisory capacity, to at least give the fans a voice at the club(many members of the CTWD committee were part of the now defunct Hull City Fan Liaison Group and we'd like to see that return in some form).

Totally agree. The German model shows that it can work when universally applied. However, I think it needs to be a National policy before we'd end up with a meaningful voice. All we have now is groups like yours who mobilise when an issue of grave concern to the fanbase comes up. If clubs actually had meaningful ongoing engagement with their fanbase then maybe situations like this one could be avoided, but that's probably too sensible to happen in the current mad World of the EPL mate.

 

[Obadiah]

I don't think 100% or even majority ownership is viable or desirable in this day and age unless you want to run a Conference team

Or Barcelona.

I except your point though. If we ever do get invited to buy shares in the club by an owner it will more likely follow Swansea City's example than Barcelona. I could see 100% ownership as desirable and viable in the Premier League when so much of the club's income is from the TV monies and sponsorship.

 

[Obadiah]

Personally, whilst a noble idea in principle, the scale of investment that you'd be talking about to have a meaningful stake (assuming you could even purchase it) makes the idea a bit of a Noddy one imo mate. It's been tried at our club and across the park, both failed to gain anywhere near the level of support to make the idea even vaguely viable.

None of which should make it a matter of derision however, as you're only trying to give the fans a permanent voice, which can never be a bad thing imo.

The example of obtaining a minority stake in the club is Swansea City. Fans and owner working together to improve Swansea City.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

I hit my head against a brick wall after reading that tripe.

 

[Newland Tiger]

Happy Tiger your post says far more about you than it does about CTWD , you seem as unhinged as 'the Family' you are always talking about

 

[Tobes]

The example of obtaining a minority stake in the club is Swansea City. Fans and owner working together to improve Swansea City.

But that stake was obtained in 2001 when the club had just been sold for £1 and they were in the old 3rd division.

A bit of a difference to trying to get a chunk of a EPL in 2014 mate

 

[ElTigre]

It took a brain the size of Happy Tiger's to come up with the opening post.

 

[FILEYseadog]

I usually like your posts happy tiger.

But that one is bloody stupid.

The FA have said no to the name change.

Game over.

Even if AA walks.....life goes on...

We might even end up with our best owner ever !

 

[Obadiah]

But that stake was obtained in 2001 when the club had just been sold for £1 and they were in the old 3rd division.

A bit of a difference to trying to get a chunk of a EPL in 2014 mate

The initial investment was £50,000. Since then they've raised another £150,000 to increase their shareholding to 20% of the club. Whether it would work in Hull is dependant on the trust raising money and the attitude of the owner. I think the trust would be able to raise money. I don't think the owner would talk to the trust at the minute, or possibly ever.