Off Topic Coronavirus

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I find the current level of politics but depressing and refreshing.

It is depressing as the wanton open corruption and nepotism is wrong and people should be going to jail but nobody is willing to investigate or arrest anyone.

It is refreshing as before this stuff would be simply handled by a change of the face in the grey suit. they'd resign, get paid off and put a sheen of doing the right thing over it and carry on the same stuff.

Is there any more corruption and incompetence now? No idea.

they clearly realise that once they are in they are in and they will be staying in as well.

People need to get this into their heads, its worth rotating the parties every election to keep them somewhat keen not to get caught. we have had 11 years of tories and another 3 to go. 14 years of tories following on from 13 of labour, following on from 23 years of tories.

This is deeply unhealthy actually. Irrespective of how doltish the parties are (boris v starmer ffs) the best idea imo is to give them max 5 years and turf them all out and let in the next bunch of corrupt schisters to clean house.

 

[Bumps]

Half of Europe was still in lock down when the UK ignored it and allowed 6 nations Rugby, Cheltenham festival and locally atletico fans and lfc fans go to cl game and that alone caused massive case rate and many deaths.

We were unhappy at the time so its not hindsight

Think that’s harsh as there was still individual choice

Blame is very easy in hindsight

The scientists have been fighting since the start of the pandemic

How was anyone supposed to know which scientists were right

Who is to say that had they gone a different route more lives would not have been lost ?
We can never know know - none of us

I don’t know much but I know parents should never show opposing views to their child

and in this case the scientists were the parents and the public were the children imho

they should have and should always be United on something as major as this cause the moment you disagree all the problems start.

if they can’t agree then no route was the correct route as it was guess work

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Think that’s harsh as there was still individual choice

Blame is very easy in hindsight

The scientists have been fighting since the start of the pandemic

How was anyone supposed to know which scientists were right

Who is to say that had they gone a different route more lives would not have been lost ?
We can never know know - none of us

I don’t know much but I know parents should never show opposing views to their child

and in this case the scientists were the parents and the public were the children imho

they should have and should always be United on something as major as this cause the moment you disagree all the problems start.

if they can’t agree then no route was the correct route as it was guess work

individual choice is a cop out.

Sorry but it is. Unless you tell people actively and order them stay home they won't and even then the underbelly kept spreading the stuff. the point being the government were telling these folks all was well don't worry and so on they went to the events.

Its not hindsight as a lot of folks were "worried" before the atletico game. An awful lot and it was why is this going ahead why are 3k of atletico fans being allowed over here yet on it went. some fans didn't give a crap and some said i have to go or i'm letting th side down and such and in the end people died out of it.

100% if they went a different route lives would have been saved 100% Nobody listens to scientists. They listen to internet freaks or boris as long as its what they want to hear. Boris fed them all is well and they rubbed their hands with glee and spread the thing.

Your analogy should be if scientists are parents then the unruly brat child boris didn't listen and told his mates to go do the opposite.


what was guess work:

a) hand washing. somewhat effective but not so much
b) social distancing - highly effective but only if the setting is right. a closed room with poor ventilation and it doesn't matter after a while the air is a fog of corona.

what was not guess work
a) infectivity rates of corona
b) symptoms of corona
c) when is corona transmissible compared to when symptoms start
d) death rates from corona
e) the fact it was all over italy and spain
f) the fact it was a killer in china.

We actively desired it was an issue until someone actually dies for it. Like as if we were immune compared to chinese people. then we panicked and started weeks too late to react.

the correct choices at the time should have cancelled Cheltenham and should have put all games in football off or behind closed doors earlier.


The sad fact is as much as boris has blood on his hands the clown in yankland has more, there is a business v public health clash here and business will win.

the only lockdown that worked was the first one really but it was wasted as there was zero and i mean zero desire to shut travel down and so in the instant summer hols were done it was rife again. the january scenes were entirely predictable and once people were not afraid enough any more they were chafing agaisnt lockdowns and even taking vaccines.

As of now, anyone without a vaccine should be on their own imo. but i even hear people resisting boosters now. Guess what. if you don't get a booster you are in trouble this winter.


My prediction: inaction and lack of leadership NOW means people will not queue up for boosters and frankly the thing will tear into the population again this winter.

 

[lfcpower]

individual choice is a cop out.

Sorry but it is. Unless you tell people actively and order them stay home they won't and even then the underbelly kept spreading the stuff. the point being the government were telling these folks all was well don't worry and so on they went to the events.

Its not hindsight as a lot of folks were "worried" before the atletico game. An awful lot and it was why is this going ahead why are 3k of atletico fans being allowed over here yet on it went. some fans didn't give a crap and some said i have to go or i'm letting th side down and such and in the end people died out of it.

100% if they went a different route lives would have been saved 100% Nobody listens to scientists. They listen to internet freaks or boris as long as its what they want to hear. Boris fed them all is well and they rubbed their hands with glee and spread the thing.

Your analogy should be if scientists are parents then the unruly brat child boris didn't listen and told his mates to go do the opposite.


what was guess work:

a) hand washing. somewhat effective but not so much
b) social distancing - highly effective but only if the setting is right. a closed room with poor ventilation and it doesn't matter after a while the air is a fog of corona.

what was not guess work
a) infectivity rates of corona
b) symptoms of corona
c) when is corona transmissible compared to when symptoms start
d) death rates from corona
e) the fact it was all over italy and spain
f) the fact it was a killer in china.

We actively desired it was an issue until someone actually dies for it. Like as if we were immune compared to chinese people. then we panicked and started weeks too late to react.

the correct choices at the time should have cancelled Cheltenham and should have put all games in football off or behind closed doors earlier.


The sad fact is as much as boris has blood on his hands the clown in yankland has more, there is a business v public health clash here and business will win.

the only lockdown that worked was the first one really but it was wasted as there was zero and i mean zero desire to shut travel down and so in the instant summer hols were done it was rife again. the january scenes were entirely predictable and once people were not afraid enough any more they were chafing agaisnt lockdowns and even taking vaccines.

As of now, anyone without a vaccine should be on their own imo. but i even hear people resisting boosters now. Guess what. if you don't get a booster you are in trouble this winter.


My prediction: inaction and lack of leadership NOW means people will not queue up for boosters and frankly the thing will tear into the population again this winter.

This line hits on something I've long supposed about it all which seems to me to be an example of British (English mostly) and US exceptionalism, given the responses in these countries, which is built on, for us, a lingering post-colonial superiority complex that we're still better than most 'poorer' and 'less advanced' parts of the world (a ridiculous and absurd assumption/belief today given the reality of Britain's decaying towns, industry, economy and infrastructure) and so in this case literally thinking we're immune to the issues other, lesser, parts of the world face. And for the Americans it's just the usual proto-imperialist arrogance built on their vision of themselves as leaders and saviours of the world so that nothing that afflicts the rest of the world can impact on them. A position and notion of which they've been sharply disabused in the last few days.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

This line hits on something I've long supposed about it all which seems to me to be an example of British (English mostly) and US exceptionalism, given the responses in these countries, which is built on, for us, a lingering post-colonial superiority complex that we're still better than most 'poorer' and 'less advanced' parts of the world (a ridiculous and absurd assumption/belief today given the reality of Britain's decaying towns, industry, economy and infrastructure) and so in this case literally thinking we're immune to the issues other, lesser, parts of the world face. And for the Americans it's just the usual proto-imperialist arrogance built on their vision of themselves as leaders and saviours of the world so that nothing that afflicts the rest of the world can impact on them. A position and notion of which they've been sharply disabused in the last few days.

the americans have taken a hit they will not recover from. they don't know it yet.

It is not the last signs of empire however. The Soviet union was caving in 1988. The americans are rather in a competition with china (or see themselves in it)

the actions of Trump in iraq/syria with the kurds was very poor. He basically hung them out to dry with the turks.

thjen trump signed a treay with the taliban to go away and the republicans are trying to make out they would not have pulled out blah blah but its all infighting. biden has always been anti involvement and just yanked not only the support but the air support and it all caved in.

china will only build influence round the globe while it stock piles nukes and aircraft carriers and tanks. It will soon be the biggest economy in the world and match it with global influence.

The americans imo will never again have the same level of influence globally.

 

[saintanton]

Think that’s harsh as there was still individual choice

Blame is very easy in hindsight

The scientists have been fighting since the start of the pandemic

How was anyone supposed to know which scientists were right

Who is to say that had they gone a different route more lives would not have been lost ?
We can never know know - none of us

I don’t know much but I know parents should never show opposing views to their child

and in this case the scientists were the parents and the public were the children imho

they should have and should always be United on something as major as this cause the moment you disagree all the problems start.

if they can’t agree then no route was the correct route as it was guess work

Plenty of us were unhappy about it at the time.
With an unknown threat, safety-first is the only sane policy. Waiting to see how badly it turns out is not acceptable.
There was no hindsight involved for me in knowing that Boris has no place in politics - when I first knew he was standing I thought it was a joke. He's a media clown, not a politician.
There's no remorse or accountability. Rather than admit ineptitude they try to spin their mistakes into triumphs.
I have no idea how to go about running a country, unfortunately neither do many of those whose job it is.

 

[Bumps]

Plenty of us were unhappy about it at the time.
With an unknown threat, safety-first is the only sane policy. Waiting to see how badly it turns out is not acceptable.
There was no hindsight involved for me in knowing that Boris has no place in politics - when I first knew he was standing I thought it was a joke. He's a media clown, not a politician.
There's no remorse or accountability. Rather than admit ineptitude they try to spin their mistakes into triumphs.
I have no idea how to go about running a country, unfortunately neither do many of those whose job it is.

I get what you are all saying
And I agree with lots and lots of it
But - like a lot of what we chat about on here
It will change nothing
Like I said above no one will ever know which route was better unless we can invent a time machine

some may make their feelings known stronger than others but it’s interesting looking/listening to other peoples opinions

I personally feel that the lockdowns have created far more social and fiscal problems that will run and run way longer than I am on the planet
- and that damage to me is for more devastating than the virus itself.

as with everything all that is going on is the show to me - the far more interesting questions to me lie around the origins of the virus and how and why it appeared
But that’s a different question

 

[saintanton]

I personally feel that the lockdowns have created far more social and fiscal problems that will run and run way longer than I am on the planet
- and that damage to me is for more devastating than the virus itself.

as with everything all that is going on is the show to me - the far more interesting questions to me lie around the origins of the virus and how and why it appeared
But that’s a different question

With all due respect, I don't see how you can say such a thing.
If inaction had caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people how can that not be more important than having to deal with long-standing socio-economic problems - except to those who feel that people are less important than money?
Economies are a human invention - they can be adjusted if there's sufficient will.
Yes, there will be repercussions, but surely people's lives are more important?

 

[Bumps]

With all due respect, I don't see how you can say such a thing.
If inaction had caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people how can that not be more important than having to deal with long-standing socio-economic problems - except to those who feel that people are less important than money?
Economies are a human invention - they can be adjusted if there's sufficient will.
Yes, there will be repercussions, but surely people's lives are more important?

No mate I don’t think what you are saying there and it’s way to big a topic to delve into on here

I have been seeing the results of families on the edge

I was also involved in searching for a body of an individual who had chosen to end their life not going into the details

I have a friend in the police who is telling me about situations arising

everyone has their own opinion and as I said before no one can prove or disprove what the best way was regarding the pandemic

please don’t equate what I am saying to me not caring about people’s lives as I really do

I just do not believe the lockdowns worked - happy to try one but the first one didn’t solve the issue to me

I have no idea what the right way is but again as I said before watching scientists continually argue and try to get bragging rights I know is not the correct way

it’s just **** mate - that’s all

very rare I stick up for a government but I really don’t believe any action they took or didn’t take would have altered anything

I won’t say any more now
I Respect everyone’s opinions on this and I am not saying I am right - just how I feel - which I realise could be totally wrong

 

[Bumps]

With all due respect, I don't see how you can say such a thing.
If inaction had caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people how can that not be more important than having to deal with long-standing socio-economic problems - except to those who feel that people are less important than money?
Economies are a human invention - they can be adjusted if there's sufficient will.
Yes, there will be repercussions, but surely people's lives are more important?

And yes people’s lives are more important and animals

 

[THE FOOL]

No mate I don’t think what you are saying there and it’s way to big a topic to delve into on here

I have been seeing the results of families on the edge

I was also involved in searching for a body of an individual who had chosen to end their life not going into the details

I have a friend in the police who is telling me about situations arising

everyone has their own opinion and as I said before no one can prove or disprove what the best way was regarding the pandemic

please don’t equate what I am saying to me not caring about people’s lives as I really do

I just do not believe the lockdowns worked - happy to try one but the first one didn’t solve the issue to me

I have no idea what the right way is but again as I said before watching scientists continually argue and try to get bragging rights I know is not the correct way

it’s just **** mate - that’s all

very rare I stick up for a government but I really don’t believe any action they took or didn’t take would have altered anything

I won’t say any more now
I Respect everyone’s opinions on this and I am not saying I am right - just how I feel - which I realise could be totally wrong

I like how you've stated your views Bumps and from a personal point of view maybe the economic consequences have been more severe.

However the lockdowns obviously worked, cases went up, we entered lockdown, they went down. It's what they where supposed to do.

130,000 dead with us sitting inside for a year, the death toll without it would have been catastrophic. Something that must be considered is the economic impact of having so many people die in such a short space of time, can you imagine if a million people had gone in 12 months? Can you imagine the social and economic impact of that?

 

[saintanton]

And yes people’s lives are more important and animals

Our understanding of other people on here is necessarily limited, but from what I do know I don't think you're the type to dismiss people as unimportant- which is why I was surprised at the way it came across.
There's a lot of misinformation being spread which makes it difficult for any of us to make an informed judgement, but my philosophy is to be cautious in any potentially dangerous situation, and it's how I felt as soon as it was clear that this epidemic was real.
I think Boris is thoroughly inept anyway - covid aside - but whether or not anyone else would have fared better will only ever be speculation.

 

[Milky]

I somehow managed to catch it after having both jabs, barely going anywhere and wearing a mask etc. Fortunately the symptoms were mild and the vaccine did it’s job.

Yeah, I always wear masks and got my shots... No idea if it's what I have... Almost completely over it already. The losing taste thing is what makes me suspect I do. Home test was negative but those things are unreliable.

 

[Bumps]

Wondering if any boffins on here can explain to me why there does not appear to be a problem with Covid in afghanistan ?
Been watching all it unfold and at no point have there been quarantines, social distancing, hospitals do not appear to be overwhelmed, no request for assistance or vaccines, hand washing etc
But covid seems to have missed the country out ? What did they do that others didnt ?

 

[Diego]

Wondering if any boffins on here can explain to me why there does not appear to be a problem with Covid in afghanistan ?
Been watching all it unfold and at no point have there been quarantines, social distancing, hospitals do not appear to be overwhelmed, no request for assistance or vaccines, hand washing etc
But covid seems to have missed the country out ? What did they do that others didnt ?

Didn't give a **** mate, like the old Rocky movie said (in para phrase) "if they die they die"

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Wondering if any boffins on here can explain to me why there does not appear to be a problem with Covid in afghanistan ?
Been watching all it unfold and at no point have there been quarantines, social distancing, hospitals do not appear to be overwhelmed, no request for assistance or vaccines, hand washing etc
But covid seems to have missed the country out ? What did they do that others didnt ?

It hasnt.

If you dont measure then theres no data. If people dont go to hospital then they dont get overwhelmed.

Sane as why people say it's not a problem in Africa and go seek means to justify some theory or other to fit.

The reality is it's just a killer flu like disease

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

It looks like biden has given up on the land of the free stuff and has come up with a way to force companies to manage the vaccines.

companies over 100 need to have vaccinated staff or weekly covid tests.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

It looks like biden has given up on the land of the free stuff and has come up with a way to force companies to manage the vaccines.

companies over 100 need to have vaccinated staff or weekly covid tests.

It's mad that in a country raised on hotdogs, some won't get the vaccine because they don't know what's in it.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

It's mad that in a country raised on hotdogs, some won't get the vaccine because they don't know what's in it.

Americans don't know what's in anything but they'll eat just about anything slopped up in front of them in kfc and dennys.

Trump said get the vaccine and said operation warp speed was all him and they booed. he never opened his mouth since.

the genie is out of the bottle and nobody is in control of the republican nutjobs any more. Its all self harm and conspiracies.

It is almost as if thye want to kill off all the older morons and hand power to the democrats lol.

I presume in general the democrat voters have a higher update as NBC sid a poll on this and 69% of adults said they are vaccinated and 13% no way no how.

I also noted that the exact opposite to the UK existed where actually less white people were dosed than minorities. they like the college graduated whites v what i assume they call white trash stat. 60% of non college graduated whites are dosed v 80% of college grads


88% of democrats were dosed but on 55% of republicans.

the crazy morons that support trump more than the GOP have even less dosed despite him saying to get it. only 46% of his morons are dosed.


It seems to me that by the time covid runs its course the balance of power in Florida could be affected (though the flood of morons and retirees form other states will probably prop this up until the entire place sinks under the sea due to global warming. florida on its own is up to about 50k deaths now

 

[johnsonsbaby]

Americans don't know what's in anything but they'll eat just about anything slopped up in front of them in kfc and dennys.

Trump said get the vaccine and said operation warp speed was all him and they booed. he never opened his mouth since.

the genie is out of the bottle and nobody is in control of the republican nutjobs any more. Its all self harm and conspiracies.

It is almost as if thye want to kill off all the older morons and hand power to the democrats lol.

I presume in general the democrat voters have a higher update as NBC sid a poll on this and 69% of adults said they are vaccinated and 13% no way no how.

I also noted that the exact opposite to the UK existed where actually less white people were dosed than minorities. they like the college graduated whites v what i assume they call white trash stat. 60% of non college graduated whites are dosed v 80% of college grads


88% of democrats were dosed but on 55% of republicans.

the crazy morons that support trump more than the GOP have even less dosed despite him saying to get it. only 46% of his morons are dosed.


It seems to me that by the time covid runs its course the balance of power in Florida could be affected (though the flood of morons and retirees form other states will probably prop this up until the entire place sinks under the sea due to global warming. florida on its own is up to about 50k deaths now

You're right, uptake of the vaccine has been politicised but not just the Republicans. Kamala Harris stood at the podium and said that if Trump was involved then she wasn't having the vaccine. Along comes a new administration and miraculously a new point of view - same vaccine, same manufacturer and everyone must have it. They were acting like Trump himself had manufactured it and now the same in reverse, Biden's pushing it so Republicans are reluctant to have it. Crazy.