Off Topic Coronavirus

[finglasqpr]

Fingy, seriously, how do you interpret the stats?
Less blood clots in the stated amount of vaccinated people as would be found in the same number not vaccinated.

Would you refuse the Oxford vaccine based on that?

What do you make of Macron warning that the Oxford vaccine wouldn't work on over 65s, only to now say that it will only work on over 55s.

It's complete ****wittery mate.

What do I make of it? I don't know is my honest answer Col, I'm not a scientist, a statistician or have any medical qualifications. I trust the authorities in Norway to understand whats going on in front of them. AZ is an Anglo/Swedish company. If Sweden are continuing to suspend the vaccine, maybe that tells you something? As I said, I can't really comment. Over here, they have agreed to continue with the AZ vaccine rollout.

The point I was making Col is, when an EU country/countries suspended the vaccine, there were people on here claiming politics was being played. When a non-EU country (Norway) does the same, the same people fall silent and say nothing.

As regards Macron, I have no time for him. France is a great country which I love visiting but their politics has never been to my liking and his handling of the pandemic confirms that he's not a very good leader of his people.

Would I refuse the AZ vaccine. I confirmed on here yesterday that I would take it but the Pfizer/Biontech vaccine would be my first choice, but you have to take what your given. So yes, I would take it and any other that I may be offered.

 

[rangercol]

Seems to me that those Countries refusing to use the Oxford vaccine are looking for zero risk.
Doctor after doctor, scientist after scientist have spelled out that the risk, if it exists at all, is miniscule in comparison to getting Covid.
There's no such thing as zero risk, in any medicine or activity.

I'm just thankful that I've had my first vaccine and that we're not jumping to these strange conclusions.

 

[qprbeth]

Fingy, seriously, how do you interpret the stats?
Less blood clots in the stated amount of vaccinated people as would be found in the same number not vaccinated.

Would you refuse the Oxford vaccine based on that?

What do you make of Macron warning that the Oxford vaccine wouldn't work on over 65s, only to now say that it will only work on over 55s.

It's complete ****wittery mate.

Just gonna say...
Blood clots
And
Low platelet numbers

Don't really go together

Low on platelets and you have difficulty in blood clotting

 

[Stroller]

Seems to me that those Countries refusing to use the Oxford vaccine are looking for zero risk.
Doctor after doctor, scientist after scientist have spelled out that the risk, if it exists at all, is miniscule in comparison to getting Covid.
There's no such thing as zero risk, in any medicine or activity.

I'm just thankful that I've had my first vaccine and that we're not jumping to these strange conclusions.

There are risks in everything. As you probably know, when you have a general anaesthetic they tell you about all the associated risks before you sign the consent form. Before I had my recent surgery, I was informed that there was a 1 in 100 chance of stroke or heart failure and a 1 in 1,000 chance of death. I have to assume that these were age-adjusted, but I found them quite shocking and properly scary. The risks associated with the Covid vaccines, based on known statistics, are miniscule in comparison.

 

[sb_73]

What do I make of it? I don't know is my honest answer Col, I'm not a scientist, a statistician or have any medical qualifications. I trust the authorities in Norway to understand whats going on in front of them. AZ is an Anglo/Swedish company. If Sweden are continuing to suspend the vaccine, maybe that tells you something? As I said, I can't really comment. Over here, they have agreed to continue with the AZ vaccine rollout.

The point I was making Col is, when an EU country/countries suspended the vaccine, there were people on here claiming politics was being played. When a non-EU country (Norway) does the same, the same people fall silent and say nothing.

As regards Macron, I have no time for him. France is a great country which I love visiting but their politics has never been to my liking and his handling of the pandemic confirms that he's not a very good leader of his people.

Would I refuse the AZ vaccine. I confirmed on here yesterday that I would take it but the Pfizer/Biontech vaccine would be my first choice, but you have to take what your given. So yes, I would take it and any other that I may be offered.

I understand where you are coming from but there is some seriously odd thinking going on. Frankly Norway lacks the capacity and numbers to make population based decisions on its own.

Anyway, Ireland won Cheltenham very very easily, first 3 in the Gold Cup!

Just gonna say...
Blood clots
And
Low platelet numbers

Don't really go together

Low on platelets and you have difficulty in blood clotting

The Norway deaths appear to be haemorrhages Beth. Lots of contradictory vocabulary being used.

 

[sb_73]

There are risks in everything. As you probably know, when you have a general anaesthetic they tell you about all the associated risks before you sign the consent form. Before I had my recent surgery, I was informed that there was a 1 in 100 chance of stroke or heart failure and a 1 in 1,000 chance of death. I have to assume that these were age-adjusted, but I found them quite shocking and properly scary. The risks associated with the Covid vaccines, based on known statistics, are miniscule in comparison.

Risks are often very poorly explained as well. I accompanied my Mum on her visits to the Bristol heart unit to get her incipient aortic aneurysm sorted. Hugely risky surgery, heart lung machine etc. The consultant said if she didn’t have it done she had a 15% chance of dying. I could see her wavering, and had to explain that this was annualised and assumed she wouldn’t be doing anything strenuous. It works like compound interest, she would definitely die of it within 5 years, and possibly tomorrow if she walks up a steep hill. The consultant said cheers, I’ll explain it like that from now on. It was a brutal operation though, buts she’s still going strong 7 years later.

The vaccine risks are too small, even if they are really linked to the vaccine, to be picked up in any clinical trial, even the biggest ever run.

 

[BobbyD]

The most telling stat is that the death rate and infection rate has dropped dramatically in the UK with 40%+ of the population vaccinated. In Europe with 10%+ vaccinated and way behind starting there is a rise in both rates. The miniscule risk with the jab is amply offset by the greater control of the virus. Keep the petty politicking out of it and save lives...

to be fair, i haven't been following the deaths rates but what is the deaths rates for people younger than 50 who have caught covid?

 

[Sooperhoop]

to be fair, i haven't been following the deaths rates but what is the deaths rates for people younger than 50 who have caught covid?

If you scroll down this link you'll see the age group stats in comparison to 5-17 year olds...

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...s-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html

 

[BobbyD]

If you scroll down this link you'll see the age group stats in comparison to 5-17 year olds...

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...s-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html

jesus thats a complicated table.

Okay to put it simply based on the data in the USA:

29.5 million cases
536,000 deaths

for the under 50's,

1+2+15+45+130 as a likelihood of death by Covid (193) compared to 400 + 1100 + 2800 + 7900 for the overs 50s (12200)

so as a ratio that gives you about 8300 deaths for the under 50s out of all the deaths and 2700 deaths for the unders 40s (out of the 536,000).

In terms of actual death from catching covid, we're looking at 0.028% chance of dying for the under 50's and 0.01% for the under 40s.

I haven't looked at the obscure death rates for those under 50 who have taken the az vaccine so i can't calculate those out but from what QPR Oslo is saying, there are 3 sick nurses under 50 who may or may not have suffered some unintended consequences.

If i was under 40, would i take that chance or the 0.01%

 

[finglasqpr]

I understand where you are coming from but there is some seriously odd thinking going on. Frankly Norway lacks the capacity and numbers to make population based decisions on its own.

Anyway, Ireland won Cheltenham very very easily, first 3 in the Gold Cup!

The Norway deaths appear to be haemorrhages Beth. Lots of contradictory vocabulary being used.

We're not world class at everything, unlike the tories but........horse racing is definitely something we are world class at. The final score in terms of races won was 23-5. Rachel Blackmore on her own won 6.

Don't forget all the Irish grooms staff and jockeys also donated £25,000 to a local Cheltenham charity who cared for people during the pandemic, Nice gesture by them. The lady jockey Rachel Blackmore is a fantastic girl to finish top jockey. Great to see a woman do so well in a previously male dominated sport.

 

[finglasqpr]

There are risks in everything. As you probably know, when you have a general anaesthetic they tell you about all the associated risks before you sign the consent form. Before I had my recent surgery, I was informed that there was a 1 in 100 chance of stroke or heart failure and a 1 in 1,000 chance of death. I have to assume that these were age-adjusted, but I found them quite shocking and properly scary. The risks associated with the Covid vaccines, based on known statistics, are miniscule in comparison.

I had my surgery 10 days ago now. Still getting over it. Scary times to spend a few days in hospital.

 

[QPR Oslo]

jesus thats a complicated table.

Okay to put it simply based on the data in the USA:

29.5 million cases
536,000 deaths

for the under 50's,

1+2+15+45+130 as a likelihood of death by Covid (193) compared to 400 + 1100 + 2800 + 7900 for the overs 50s (12200)

so as a ratio that gives you about 8300 deaths for the under 50s out of all the deaths and 2700 deaths for the unders 40s (out of the 536,000).

In terms of actual death from catching covid, we're looking at 0.028% chance of dying for the under 50's and 0.01% for the under 40s.

I haven't looked at the obscure death rates for those under 50 who have taken the az vaccine so i can't calculate those out but from what QPR Oslo is saying, there are 3 sick nurses under 50 who may or may not have suffered some unintended consequences.

If i was under 40, would i take that chance or the 0.01%

They did a detail check on those 3, 1 of them died and teams of experts concluded they were convinced it was an immune response triggered by the AZ vaccination. All 3 were in intense pain and were critically ill. Another separate health worker died a few days earlier with similar profile, in Norway, and as I said there have been very similar cases reported in different European countries. Not a significant number, especially if you look at all vaccinated with AZ, rather than under 50 year old women, but these are deadly side effects/ risks when they occur.

 

[ELLERS]

What do I make of it? I don't know is my honest answer Col, I'm not a scientist, a statistician or have any medical qualifications. I trust the authorities in Norway to understand whats going on in front of them. AZ is an Anglo/Swedish company. If Sweden are continuing to suspend the vaccine, maybe that tells you something? As I said, I can't really comment. Over here, they have agreed to continue with the AZ vaccine rollout.

The point I was making Col is, when an EU country/countries suspended the vaccine, there were people on here claiming politics was being played. When a non-EU country (Norway) does the same, the same people fall silent and say nothing.

As regards Macron, I have no time for him. France is a great country which I love visiting but their politics has never been to my liking and his handling of the pandemic confirms that he's not a very good leader of his people.

Would I refuse the AZ vaccine. I confirmed on here yesterday that I would take it but the Pfizer/Biontech vaccine would be my first choice, but you have to take what your given. So yes, I would take it and any other that I may be offered.

Fair enough mate. I personally don’t like injections and I must admit after hearing these stories it made me think. However, most of the important organisations says it is okay so I will trust them. Agree Macron is a twat and he will end up killing many French people with his ill informed remarks.

 

[rangercol]

They did a detail check on those 3, 1 of them died and teams of experts concluded they were convinced it was an immune response triggered by the AZ vaccination. All 3 were in intense pain and were critically ill. Another separate health worker died a few days earlier with similar profile, in Norway, and as I said there have been very similar cases reported in different European countries. Not a significant number, especially if you look at all vaccinated with AZ, rather than under 50 year old women, but these are deadly side effects/ risks when they occur.

Oslo, for the love of God!!

There was some expert on these things on TV this morning and he categorically stated that they have definitively ruled out any link to the vaccine in the cases you refer to.

This is like discovering that 3 people out of million were hit by a bus after having their jabs and linking it to the vaccine.

Who knows whether any other side effects will emerge over time (I'm certainly experiencing some), but you can stop worrying about this blood clot myth.

I'm sure you won't though, so I'll give up on this particular subject.
Unfortunately, people are refusing the jab because of this scare story, both here and more so in Europe, where a third wave is beginning to sweep across countries.

Utterly tragic and avoidable.

 

[ELLERS]

This is like discovering that 3 people out of million were hit by a bus after having their jabs and linking it to the vaccine.

If that was in the UK the cause of death would be registered as 'covid'.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

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[sb_73]

The knock on consequences of diverting so much resource into vaccine production are beginning to become evident. Pfizer has been warning US hospitals that 4 of its biological drugs will be in short supply for the rest of the year because production lines are dedicated to vaccine, but it goes beyond that, suppliers to the whole industry, which includes things you don’t think of like special bags and filters, and the glass vials which hold the vaccine (and insulin and chemotherapy and many injectables) have been directed by Joe Biden (using a Korean War regulation) to prioritise vaccine production, meaning that companies that aren’t even involved directly will be reducing the amount of the drugs they produce for many different conditions. It is the US decision to restrict export of some of these components which has contributed to the slow down in production of the AZ vaccine in India.

I don’t think there is any short term way round this, you can’t expand production of stuff like vials overnight (the main US manufacturer can’t deliver new orders for 12-18 months), there are massive supply chains even for something as seemingly simple as that. Keep the foot to the pedal and push through this mass vaccination as fast as possible seems the only way forward, and manage the ripple effects on other conditions as well as we can, and just be transparent about prioritisation rather than pretending that everything else is fine.

 

[SW Ranger]

The knock on consequences of diverting so much resource into vaccine production are beginning to become evident. Pfizer has been warning US hospitals that 4 of its biological drugs will be in short supply for the rest of the year because production lines are dedicated to vaccine, but it goes beyond that, suppliers to the whole industry, which includes things you don’t think of like special bags and filters, and the glass vials which hold the vaccine (and insulin and chemotherapy and many injectables) have been directed by Joe Biden (using a Korean War regulation) to prioritise vaccine production, meaning that companies that aren’t even involved directly will be reducing the amount of the drugs they produce for many different conditions. It is the US decision to restrict export of some of these components which has contributed to the slow down in production of the AZ vaccine in India.

I don’t think there is any short term way round this, you can’t expand production of stuff like vials overnight (the main US manufacturer can’t deliver new orders for 12-18 months), there are massive supply chains even for something as seemingly simple as that. Keep the foot to the pedal and push through this mass vaccination as fast as possible seems the only way forward, and manage the ripple effects on other conditions as well as we can, and just be transparent about prioritisation rather than pretending that everything else is fine.

Is there no process for re-conditioning vial bottles Sb? Or is it the vial tops that cause the problem? Just wondered.

 

[sb_73]

Is there no process for re-conditioning vial bottles Sb? Or is it the vial tops that cause the problem? Just wondered.

Good question and I have absolutely no idea. The glass bit you would think yes, but not the membrane they stick the needles through. I’ll look it up, if you haven’t already.


Looks like it’s a no. The glass is incredibly specialised (just think of the temperature range it needs to withstand, while keeping the contents stable) and the original contents are biological and breed bacteria which apparently can’t be cleaned.

Elsewhere Von der Leyen’s idea to prevent export of the Pfizer jab from Belgium where it is put together, may have hit some snags. The governments of Ireland, Sweden, The Netherlands, Belgium and Poland are against the idea. More practically many of the components of the jab come from places outside the EU, including 4 critical bits of chemistry from a company called Croda, in Yorkshire. We have a government which is more than capable of joining the Commission in playing silly buggers if push comes to shove.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

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Love it. Have to say the way the nurse/doctor/volunteer is holding the syringe you have to wonder whether she was a fan of the local rivals and, in this particular case was indeed inflicting a career ending injury. The other thought which crossed my mind is where on earth she stuck it.. " Swivel on a sixpence can you? Well swivel on this."