What’s the science behind this one Beth? Something different to the ones we already have?
Off Topic Coronavirus
- Thread starter Sooperhoop
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I think it is the matrix one. So it is a stabilized form of the spike protein in a nanoparticle but it is injected with an adjuvant (matrix M) So this one has more potential for allergy.
But it is also why it is more effective too.
Will recheck tomorrow morning...as my youngest sent me the specification last October which I filed away somewhere safe ...never to be seen again!
Oh and 999s just read that this trial uses 2 vaccines : 1 placebo patient.
And they recruited more over 6Os than the other trials.
It started later, so they planned better I think
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On the news this morning they said that the Germans are indeed saying that and they recommend it not being used in the over 65s.
Read this yesterday. Initial thought was along the lines of him deserving a Darwin Award but he’s a victim. Just a sad story which has no doubt been replicated thousands of times. There’s a mention for an outspoken supposed journalist discussed on here with a huge following but not the expertise on the topic to match.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/covid-denier-gary-matthews-dies-b908310.html
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/covid-denier-gary-matthews-dies-b908310.html
The standing committee on vaccination of the Robert Koch Institute, Germany’s disease control agency, said: “There is insufficient data to judge how effective the vaccination is above 65 years.”
That’s a direct quote, not a news report.
Source: your favourite the Guardian.
Though in fact if one person in the active group got the virus and one person in the placebo group got the virus it would be factually correct to say that there is no evidence to say the vaccine is effective in the over 65 group, and this was in fact what happened, with the data mysteriously not shared in this country (to the best of my knowledge, I might have missed it) when the drug was approved. The doubt is because relatively small numbers of over 65s were involved in the trial. If they are following up on some of large numbers of the people who have received the vaccine in the real world (it’s called Real World Evidence) we will have better data on this soon, let’s hope it’s positive.
The use of the AZ vaccine in the over 65s is based on the same methodology as the decision to space out the gaps between doses - it’s an assumption that it will work, based on a bit of experience but no evidence. If a company submitted a drug for approval on the same terms it would be instantly rejected. You are not allowed to make assumptions, even if they are very justifiable ones, you need real evidence. But we are in an emergency and, even if it doesn’t work, these vaccines are probably very safe so it won’t do any harm to individuals. We should remember that these vaccines are only approved for emergency use, they re not formally, completely approved.
I will say though, as I intimated above, the German drug assessment system is incredibly strict and fussy, particularly on who is the appropriate patient for a particular medicine.
In other news it seems that AZ specified in the contract that production from its U.K. partners would/could be included in the vaccine to be supplied to the EU.
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It is as Sad story and he was stupid. I noticed the article managed to bring up JHB/Brexit. clever.
What do you mean? Surely it’s obvious that if you don’t actually know anyone who has died of COVID-19 it doesn’t really exist?
Very sad. Doubtless some will spin this loss into something else supposedly sinister.
Not really JHB and Brexit didn't even have to be mentioned. Might have something to do with her spat with the ES?
Actually Watford, I have just realised I posted on 'Covidcast'!
I'm not in the 'Covidclique'... give yourself a pat on the back and like the post. This thread is way above my pay grade. I just don't have the expertise to post that we should have joined the EU procurement programme and then when I f22ked up, fallen silent.
Im sorry, please forgive my intrusion into this temple of excellence.
Not really JHB and Brexit didn't even have to be mentioned. Might have something to do with her spat with the ES?
Actually Watford, I have just realised I posted on 'Covidcast'!
This thread is way above my pay grade. I just don't have the expertise to post that we should have joined the EU procurement programme and then when I f22ked up, fallen silent.
Im sorry, please forgive my intrusion into this temple of excellence.
It’s too early in the day for this kind of breakdown.
This whole EU/AZ spat is totally unsavory and very unprofessional. Talking about disclosing contracts over talking about ways to improve and overcome the possibilities of delivery of the vaccine and roll-out in the safest and most efficient way is a disgrace. I don’t know if Ursula von der Leyen is taking the same approach with BioNtech or not with their delays.
I also would like to see our government showing more consideration on how to help get things rolling to help our EU neighbors, while still prioritizing its own responsibilities to the UK, rather than seeing this vaccine nationalism spilling over. Surely this all about lives ... not about point scoring.
I also would like to see our government showing more consideration on how to help get things rolling to help our EU neighbors, while still prioritizing its own responsibilities to the UK, rather than seeing this vaccine nationalism spilling over. Surely this all about lives ... not about point scoring.
Tbh SW I agree totally. This is an EU c@@k up and they are trying to cover up the cracks of their ineptitude. I have no problem in sharing vaccines but the EU are only interested in themselves. Plenty of poor countries around the World need it just as much? They haven’t mentioned any of them... it’s all me me me. This is all a smoke screen for incompetence.
Actually what the German doctors are saying is totally sensible.
Give the AZ vaccine to those under 65 where it is effective...give the Pfizervaccine to over 65 where it has been shown to be effective.
What's not right...nothing. Evidence based medicine...no need for a fuss.
However the the EU president Van Der Leyen has made it much more political and aggressive and completely unnecessary.
Give the AZ vaccine to those under 65 where it is effective...give the Pfizervaccine to over 65 where it has been shown to be effective.
What's not right...nothing. Evidence based medicine...no need for a fuss.
However the the EU president Van Der Leyen has made it much more political and aggressive and completely unnecessary.
Spot on Beth.
Of course. But why is what is sensible and evidence based for the Germans not for the British? No need to answer.....
I think the EU response has very little to do with AZ or the UK in particular and everything to do with their embarrassment at their very weak performance so far, mounting public pressure within the bloc (which is against the EU response, not the companies from what I understand) and possibly a certain naivety over how a contract for a biologically created product works. Van Der Leyen can scream as much as she likes, but it won’t magically create the product out of nothing.
As we all agree vaccine nationalism is a very bad thing it would be a nice gesture for the UK/AZ to redirect some of the product earmarked for us to the EU, wouldn’t it? If all of our most vulnerable have had the jab and we have supply for their second dose, I don’t mind waiting a few more weeks for mine if it means a genuinely vulnerable person in Spain or Poland gets some protection. And then when the supply issues are sorted, for all the rich countries to deliver on their promises to make sure the poorer countries don’t lag behind. We’re all in this together.
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Agree, although to be fair, what I have seen from Johnson and Gove is that they are trying to defuse the situation. It's the EU commission that's getting angry, a defensive reaction because they've messed up by delaying too long putting the order in
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Basically a section of the contract that absolves AZ of liability if there are delays in supply due to aforementioned contract/s, which you would assume is the UK contract...