Off Topic Coronavirus

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Sooperhoop said:
You have to wonder why they kicked up such a stink whilst rubbishing it but then suddenly it's approved...
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Agree. Yesterday it wasn't good enough and today it okay! It might something to do with all the media attention on the fact that the EU cocked up? if you have a look on Twitter it is full of unhappy Europeans.
One tweet I read was from a fella saying how the EU has let everyone down and wanted Putin to come and save the day with the Russian vaccine!<yikes>
 
ELLERS said:
go ahead debunked what I have posted? Truth is you can't because it's fact. Next
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I already have. Fair enough if you think the EMA should have decided quicker but it’s inaccurate, intentionally so on your part, to suggest they’ve suddenly come out with this today out of the blue.
 
West WindsR said:
I already have. Fair enough if you think the EMA should have decided quicker but it’s inaccurate, intentionally so on your part, to suggest they’ve suddenly come out with this today out of the blue.
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You need to re read my post. I actually said "I thought the Germans said it was not effective in over 65's yet they are saying roll out to all?"
That is correct. I know you are a EU fanatic but they are wrong on this.
 
ELLERS said:
Am I missing something here? I thought the Germans said it was not effective in over 65's yet they are saying roll out to all?
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You are not missing anything Ellers - the EU has given it the ok. but has said that individual countries will choose who they give the vaccine to, and when. So presumably Germany will use the AstraZeneca vaccine for its younger population.
 
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colognehornet said:
You are not missing anything Ellers - the EU has given it the ok. but has said that individual countries will choose who they give the vaccine to, and when. So presumably Germany will use the AstraZeneca vaccine for its younger population.
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That's what I thought but I am now hearing through tweets that Germany will use the AZ for all, as supplies will be short.
 
qprbeth said:
Act

It is sensible evidence for the UK too.

But we needed and wanted to get on with vaccination...nothing wrong with that.

In an ideal world use pfizer / Moderna, novavax for the elderly...use AZ for the under 65... And give everyone two shots at the right time.

It's not an ideal world at the moment.
I accept governments have to take risks.

The only risk I currently think is too risky, is not giving the Pfizer second dose at the right time to those at most risk in group 1.
Get groups 1 and 2 fully protected and then we can relax a bit
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I think we can only really relax when everyone has been innoculated Beth. The danger is that if people go away with the idea that the vulnerable are protected they will relax too much and the disease will run rampant amongst the non vaccinated population - and the more cases there are the more the chance rises for further mutations. I actually wish that the issue of vaccination had not been given so much publicity.
 
sb_73 said:
The standing committee on vaccination of the Robert Koch Institute, Germany’s disease control agency, said: “There is insufficient data to judge how effective the vaccination is above 65 years.”

That’s a direct quote, not a news report.

Source: your favourite the Guardian.

Though in fact if one person in the active group got the virus and one person in the placebo group got the virus it would be factually correct to say that there is no evidence to say the vaccine is effective in the over 65 group, and this was in fact what happened, with the data mysteriously not shared in this country (to the best of my knowledge, I might have missed it) when the drug was approved. The doubt is because relatively small numbers of over 65s were involved in the trial. If they are following up on some of large numbers of the people who have received the vaccine in the real world (it’s called Real World Evidence) we will have better data on this soon, let’s hope it’s positive.

The use of the AZ vaccine in the over 65s is based on the same methodology as the decision to space out the gaps between doses - it’s an assumption that it will work, based on a bit of experience but no evidence. If a company submitted a drug for approval on the same terms it would be instantly rejected. You are not allowed to make assumptions, even if they are very justifiable ones, you need real evidence. But we are in an emergency and, even if it doesn’t work, these vaccines are probably very safe so it won’t do any harm to individuals. We should remember that these vaccines are only approved for emergency use, they re not formally, completely approved.

I will say though, as I intimated above, the German drug assessment system is incredibly strict and fussy, particularly on who is the appropriate patient for a particular medicine.

In other news it seems that AZ specified in the contract that production from its U.K. partners would/could be included in the vaccine to be supplied to the EU.
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Why the "Guardian" dig?
All I was attempting to do was to continue to highlight the "who to believe?" theme.
Now it seems they're saying it's ok to give it to everyone?
The EU and their regulators seem to be all over the place on this.
 
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'
rangercol said:
Why the "Guardian" dig?
All I was attempting to do was to continue to highlight the "who to believe?" theme.
Now it seems they're saying it's ok to give it to everyone?
The EU and their regulators seem to be all over the place on this.
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Just a little joke Col, I was surprised that you referenced it in another post. Even I don’t take it, or Channel 4, seriously. Apologies.

I’m sorry, as Watford has been trying to explain that the German authorities are not the same as the EMA. All the regulators - British, German and the EMA - agree that there is not enough evidence to be sure that the AZ vaccine is effective in the over 65s. It seems that the UK and the EMA think that the situation is so desperate that they will use it in this age group anyway. Looks like the Germans might fall into line*. Fair enough, in a situation where it is obvious that there is not enough vaccine from any source to vaccinate all the vulnerable people in the near future beggars can’t be choosers.

I won’t repeat the other stuff in my original post, but would be interested in your thoughts on it.

The good news is lots more choice is in the way, even though unfortunately it won’t be available tomorrow.


* just said on the news that the Germans won’t give it to the over 65s.
 
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sb_73 said:
'

Just a little joke Col, I was surprised that you referenced it in another post. Even I don’t take it, or Channel 4, seriously. Apologies.

I’m sorry, as Watford has been trying to explain that the German authorities are not the same as the EMA. All the regulators - British, German and the EMA - agree that there is not enough evidence to be sure that the AZ vaccine is effective in the over 65s. It seems that the UK and the EMA think that the situation is so desperate that they will use it in this age group anyway. Looks like the Germans might fall into line*. Fair enough, in a situation where it is obvious that there is not enough vaccine from any source to vaccinate all the vulnerable people in the near future beggars can’t be choosers.

I won’t repeat the other stuff in my original post, but would be interested in your thoughts on it.

The good news is lots more choice is in the way, even though unfortunately it won’t be available tomorrow.


* just said on the news that the Germans won’t give it to the over 65s.
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Ok mate.
I mentioned The Guardian as I hoped it would give me more gravitas with you lefties :emoticon-0100-smile.
So does this mean that the Germans are going to behave differently to the rest of the EU?
 
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