Off Topic Coronavirus

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ELLERS said:
Interesting comments on TV from two of the top medical experts who said that the critical care team in the UK is 2nd to none .. although we don't have as many as countries like Germany.
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Having the best care isn't the same thing as having those professionals who are carrying out the care being correctly protected, is it? I believe you when you say you're not knocking the NHS, but you seem to be quite content to knock those of us who are concerned about their protection. If I had my way, my wife would be in a full protective suit with fully fitted mask like you see in the movies - realistically, that's not going to happen, but they need something better than what they've got.
 
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ELLERS said:
eer I have not made any 'veiled attack on your colleagues or you'
Show me one post where I have knocked the NHS... not one or said anything about you. in fact all my post have been supportive of the NHS
Last contact I had with you was when you through your toys out of the pram before the election and stopped posting.
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Yeah you’re right Ellers, I was having some dark thoughts about you after conversing with you on the Politics thread so thought it better I chilled out for a while and stopped posting. Also had a few nasty jobs at the time, one in particular that hit me very hard emotionally and the break from the board did my MH the world of good.
Anyway, let’s go back to ignoring each other......
 
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Staines R's said:
Yeah you’re right Ellers, I was having some dark thoughts about you after conversing with you on the Politics thread so thought it better I chilled out for a while and stopped posting. Also had a few nasty jobs at the time, one in particular that hit me very hard emotionally and the break from the board did my MH the world of good.
Anyway, let’s go back to ignoring each other......
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Hey Staines :emoticon-0148-yes:
I will say I didn't see your 1661 post as I was responding to SM otherwise I would have replied.
I have not goaded anyone just talked about a picture.
However I expect to see you back on the politics thread when all our life get back to normality.
 
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Steelmonkey said:
Having the best care isn't the same thing as having those professionals who are carrying out the care being correctly protected, is it? I believe you when you say you're not knocking the NHS, but you seem to be quite content to knock those of us who are concerned about their protection. If I had my way, my wife would be in a full protective suit with fully fitted mask like you see in the movies - realistically, that's not going to happen, but they need something better than what they've got.
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Once again SM I am not knocking anyone. I am concerened about the protection of our front line. I don't think you will find a more vocal person on here that criticised the government over equipment for Blairs wars.
I'm not saying we are fully equiped because we are not. However this thing has hit us very quickly.
 
ELLERS said:
Once again SM I am not knocking anyone. I am concerened about the protection of our front line. I don't think you will find a more vocal person on here that criticised the government over equipment for Blairs wars.
I'm not saying we are fully equiped because we are not. However this thing has hit us very quickly.
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It has. The real crime is how long we sat on our hands while China then Italy then Spain burned. We had that relative luxury to do more.
 
Steelmonkey said:
Having the best care isn't the same thing as having those professionals who are carrying out the care being correctly protected, is it? I believe you when you say you're not knocking the NHS, but you seem to be quite content to knock those of us who are concerned about their protection. If I had my way, my wife would be in a full protective suit with fully fitted mask like you see in the movies - realistically, that's not going to happen, but they need something better than what they've got.
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For over 20 years my job has involved close contact with the health systems of major countries - across Europe, Japan, Australia. I’m pretty confident that they are roughly similar in quality, though with some glaring differences. That the UK is on the same page as the others is a ****ing miracle because so little is spent on it in comparison. Many professionals in Europe are in awe at the outcomes we get with the resources available.

This is nothing to be proud of.

I lived in Italy for nearly five years and have had cause to use the health system there. It’s very good. But that was ages ago. My more recent professional experience is still of a system I would be happy to be treated in, but one which like all others is under resource pressure. Northern Italy is one of the richest and best resourced parts of Europe. The inability of the system there to cope with the epidemic terrifies me, I see no reason to expect us to be in any better nick, and the public health measures we have taken are about identical to theirs. The only differences might be their older demographic and the truly appalling air quality in Northern Italy which will have ****ed up a lot of lungs (not much solace for Londoners).
 
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West WindsR said:
It has. The real crime is how long we sat on our hands while China then Italy then Spain burned. We had that relative luxury to do more.
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what’s even more embarrassing is my boss questioning the quality of PPE and test kits I procured long ago and just topped up, when Govts. are missing so many.

i asked him whether he would have Govt. procurement or prefer to stick with me.

I’m afraid that as you imply, many, many people sleepwalked in to this.
 
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West WindsR said:
It has. The real crime is how long we sat on our hands while China then Italy then Spain burned. We had that relative luxury to do more.
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But did we Watford?
I have already said that the Chinese cleared us out of gloves and masks.
The WHO said "NO COUNTRY COULD HAVE PREPARED FOR THIS"
A Scientist on Sky News as I am typing has just said "there is not a country in the World who could have prepared for enough ventilators".
Last week the UK scientists said they have been working for weeks on a vaccine. I posted it after I saw the story
Today they have a new hospital being prepared in London with 2000 well needed beds.
Many retired staff are coming in to help.
Army delivering masks to hospitals.

What exactly do you expect?

Sadly, as I said in an earlier post that there are people sitting around waiting to strike at the government before all the full facts are in.
 
daverangers said:
Scientists recommend an extra 4 weeks confinement in France...so no going out until May 3rd. Government yet to announce if they will run with that advice or not.
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Dave, is anything being made of the use of Ibuprofen when you have COVID ? Think the original anecdotal evidence that it could do harm came from the French Dr’s, though there was no firm evidence, but seems to of gone quiet.
I know the NHS are saying that Ibuprofen should now be avoided but wondered if it’s a big thing over ther
 
daverangers said:
Scientists recommend an extra 4 weeks confinement in France...so no going out until May 3rd. Government yet to announce if they will run with that advice or not.
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The wage payments here have been guaranteed for 12 weeks even though the lockdowns only for 4
So far
Seems to me to be far too many essential workers to be fully successful
 
The first steps to ending the season have been taken by the feeder leagues, if it goes higher to the National League it may well carry on upwards, the next few weeks will certainly make their minds up...

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Staines R's said:
Dave, is anything being made of the use of Ibuprofen when you have COVID ? Think the original anecdotal evidence that it could do harm came from the French Dr’s, though there was no firm evidence, but seems to of gone quiet.
I know the NHS are saying that Ibuprofen should now be avoided but wondered if it’s a big thing over ther
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I haven't seen anything about Ibuprofen, only that an old Malaria drug might help.
 
Sooperhoop said:
The first steps to ending the season have been taken by the feeder leagues, if it goes higher to the National League it may well carry on upwards, the next few weeks will certainly make their minds up...

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Sooper I have been saying all along that this season is gone... too many problems and health risks.
 
ELLERS said:
But did we Watford?
I have already said that the Chinese cleared us out of gloves and masks.
The WHO said "NO COUNTRY COULD HAVE PREPARED FOR THIS"
A Scientist on Sky News as I am typing has just said "there is not a country in the World who could have prepared for enough ventilators".
Last week the UK scientists said they have been working for weeks a vaccine. I posted it after I saw the story
Today they have a new hospital being prepared in London with 2000 well needed beds.
Many retired staff are coming in to help.
Army delivering masks to hospitals.

What exactly do you expect?

Sadly, as I said in an earlier post that there are people sitting around waiting to strike at the government before all the full facts are in.
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You’re writing and quoting ****.
Kiwi does it with humour, or at least attempts it.
You do realise you don’t need to try to be an expert on everything?
And you certainly don’t need to defend the Govt. Big enough to look after themselves- and they usually do.

Many, many countries reacted very swiftly and with precision.
I was dealing with this since second week Jan.
Unfortunately I’m in China way too often as all our CAPEX is toed up there. Trust me, my own SMT colleagues thought I was making too much of this.
This was no worse than the flu and was an Asia problem.
I spent 180K USD on associated PPE - could have sold it for 20 x that-
I run Product tanker vessels in case you’re wondering.

Europe ****ing sleepwalked and totally underestimated this.
UK let 3000 Madrilenos in just so Liverpool could have their fing YNWA.
At a time when everyone knew what was happening in Madrid.
 
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Yeah thats the one i think or this one? they maybe the same.
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Staines R's said:
That’s strange.....we are definitely now advising people NOT to take IBP as it’s allegedly can do harm when having COVID......as I say, no firm evidence but purely anecdotal
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Found this on the BBC staines




Reality Check

Coronavirus and ibuprofen: Separating fact from fiction
By Reality Check team and BBC MonitoringBBC News
  • 17 March 2020
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Image copyrightGETTY IMAGES
Stories have been circulating online suggesting it's dangerous to take ibuprofen if you have coronavirus. Alongside genuine medical advice, false messages have been spreading, distorting the facts.

Speaking to the BBC, medical professionals said that ibuprofen is not recommended for managing coronavirus symptoms.

The NHS says that, while "there is currently no strong evidence that ibuprofen can make coronavirus (Covid-19) worse, until we have more information take paracetamol to treat the symptoms of coronavirus, unless your doctor has told you paracetamol is not suitable for you."

Those already taking ibuprofen for other conditions should not stop without consulting a doctor, though.

Both paracetamol and ibuprofen can bring a temperature down and help with flu-like symptoms. But ibuprofen and other non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) are not suitable for everyone and can cause side-effects - especially for people with asthma, heart and circulatory problems.

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The NHS website previously recommended both paracetamol and ibuprofen, but has since changed its advice.

There is also some evidence linking ibuprofen to more severe illness from other respiratory infections.

False stories
But whatever the advice, there's still been a great deal of misinformation online. Bogus messages have been circulating on WhatsApp claiming that:

• "There are four young people in an intensive care unit in Cork who have no underlying illnesses - all were taking anti-inflammatories and there are concerns this has caused a more severe illness" (false)

• The University of Vienna has sent a memo warning people with coronavirus symptoms not to take ibuprofen, "because it has been discovered that it increases the speed of reproduction of the coronavirus Covid-19 in the body and this is the reason why people in Italy have reached the current bad stage and rapid spread" (false)

• "At the university hospital in Toulouse, France, there are four very critical cases of coronavirus in [young people] who do not have any health problems. Their problem is that when they all appeared to have symptoms, they all took painkillers like ibuprofen" (false)

These stories circulating on WhatsApp are also appearing on different platforms including Instagram.

Commonly these kinds of copied-and-pasted texts will claim to be from someone the forwarder says they know, often with a medical background.

All these claims are false
The Infectious Diseases Society of Ireland said a WhatsApp message circulating about coronavirus patients in Cork is "a fake message", asking anyone who receives it to "ignore and delete".


Infectious Diseases Society of Ireland@IDSIreland
https://twitter.com/IDSIreland/status/1239251915516645377

It has come to our attention that there is a WhatsApp message being circulated purporting to be from the ID consultants in Cork, all of whom are members of @IDSIreland. It's signed Dr Tim. This is a fake message, please ignore and delete. Thanks.


899
7:07 AM - Mar 16, 2020
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End of Twitter post by @IDSIreland

Toulouse University Hospital warned that inaccurate information was circulating on social networks, saying it would not have discussed the care of patients due to medical confidentiality.

So what do we know about ibuprofen and Covid-19?
There has been no research into ibuprofen and the new coronavirus (Covid-19).

But there has been some for other respiratory infections, suggesting ibuprofen is linked to more complications and more severe illness, according to Paul Little, a professor of primary care research at University of Southampton.

Experts believe that ibuprofen's anti-inflammatory properties may "dampen" the body's immune response.

Prof Parastou Donyai at the University of Reading says: "There are many studies that suggest ibuprofen use during a respiratory infection can result in worsening of the disease or other complications."

But, she says, "I have not seen any scientific evidence that clearly shows a totally healthy 25 year old taking ibuprofen for symptoms of COVID-19 is putting themselves at additional risk of complications."

Although we don't yet know whether ibuprofen has a particular effect on the severity or length of illnesses caused by coronavirus - either in healthy people or those with underlying conditions - Dr Charlotte Warren-Gash, of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, says, especially for vulnerable patients, "it seems sensible to stick to paracetamol as first choice".

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Image captionParacetamol has sold out in many pharmacies
The spreading of rumours has led to confusion
Worries over the use of ibuprofen appear to have surfaced in France, after Jean-Louis Montastruc, a doctor at Toulouse University Hospital warned on Twitter that: "In this period of coronavirus, it is necessary to remember the risk of complications of the NSAIDs in case of fever or infection."

A subsequent tweet by France's health minister, Olivier Veran, saying that anti-inflammatory drugs "could be an aggravating factor of the infection" was shared more than 43,000 times. But he also said people should consult a doctor before stopping taking them.

Other tweets are also being shared including one saying that ibuprofen "may cause severe cases of the disease, even in young and middle-aged adults with no underlying conditions" which has been shared more than 94,000 times on Twitter.

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Image copyrightFACEBOOK
Image captionMany people on social media appeared to have "a doctor in the family" with inside information
A lack of clear consensus on the issue from the medical profession has led to mixed messages and rumours spreading online, and the University of Vienna laboratory claim noted earlier seems to have taken on a life of its own in both English and German.

Twitter and Facebook posts - which seem to be cut-and-pasted and adapted by users - all claim to have a "doctor in the family" who has information from the Vienna lab that "the vast majority of people who died of Covid-19 had ibuprofen in their system". Some of the posts go on to claim that coronavirus "thrives on ibuprofen". There is no evidence that this is the case.

This online rumour also appeared on German-language WhatsApp as voice message and text messages. These messages typically claimed to be from a young mother saying that the Vienna lab had researched Covid-19 deaths in Italy and found that the majority had self-medicated with ibuprofen. The message offers no specific evidence to back up its claims, according to German pharmaceutical news website aponet.de. "Such a pattern is typical of conspiracy theories," it concludes.

Reporting by Rachel Schraer, Jack Goodman and Alistair Coleman

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