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Off Topic Climate Strike

Discussion in 'Hull City' started by dennisboothstash, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. Kempton

    Kempton Well-Known Member

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  2. Howdentiger2

    Howdentiger2 Well-Known Member

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    It does say biggest in decades and these kind of freak storms have, will and always will happen due to natural cycles and would still be happening is us horrible humans where here or not. If this kind of freak storm became a yearly event then yes it could be blamed on climate change etc, but pretending natural once in a blue moon events are human / climate change effects will just push people the other way

    Not saying you are in this instance btw
     
    #502
  3. originallambrettaman

    originallambrettaman Mod Moderator
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    Climatological events, such as extreme temperatures, droughts, and forest fires, have more than doubled since 1980 and meteorological events, such as storms, have also doubled since 1980. As Kemp’s says, it’s happening too often.
     
    #503
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  4. originallambrettaman

    originallambrettaman Mod Moderator
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  5. Steven Toast

    Steven Toast Well-Known Member

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    "It's the natural cycle of the Earth" people say as they pump unnatural chemicals into the atmosphere, accelerating the cycle.
     
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  6. Des Head

    Des Head Well-Known Member

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    Whilst it is inaccurate to attribute individual weather events to human caused global warming, it is still true to say that the odds of a freak weather event occurring are increasing over time.

    Climate is your personality, weather is your mood.
     
    #506
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  7. dennisboothstash

    dennisboothstash Well-Known Member

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    Don’t speak as if you are an Authority on the subject. Offer an opinion of course, but don’t act as if your view on the planets cycle is based on evidence you hold.
    According to your theory a once in 200 year event (the 2007 floods in Hull for example) shouldn’t be considered as evidence of climate change unless it happened every year (instead of happening again in 2013 for example)
    That’s nonsensical
     
    #507
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  8. Howdentiger2

    Howdentiger2 Well-Known Member

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    That was my opinion, no speaking from any sort of I know best angle at all
     
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  9. City Man

    City Man Well-Known Member

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    Peter Hitchens writes:

    It will soon be impossible to criticise the fanatics of Extinction Rebellion.

    In fact, I will not be at all surprised if, in years to come, I and others face prosecution for having dared to doubt them.

    Soon we will be sitting in an impoverished, dark country, with a trashed economy, incessant power cuts and dismal standard of living, caused by their dogma.

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    +6

    We are like a thirsty man refusing to drink from a tap because of a water shortage, while his local water company leaves hundreds of leaks unrepaired, allowing thousands of gallons to drain away each hour

    Putting people on trial for warning against this will be one way to keep warm and occupied.

    So, while I still may, I’ll say that this is one of the nastiest and stupidest outbreaks of intolerant, irrational zealotry since mankind emerged from the Dark Ages. I speak as a former intolerant zealot, who grew out of it.

    I know the fierce joy which comes from despising others, only too well. And I fear it.

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    +6
    So, off we go into the cold and dark, while the red-clad propaganda mummers simper and gesticulate. Protesters are pictured at a 'grief march' in London last week

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    Extinction Rebellion protest by Liverpool Street station in London

    Perhaps the most dispiriting version of it is to be seen in the painted, beatific faces of the red-robed mime-artists who are to be found on so many of the demonstrations demanding that this country commits economic suicide.

    Who can tell what is going on behind those self-satisfied, ethereal expressions? But they give these marches a strong whiff of the Age of Inquisitions, which I once thought we had escaped.

    I won’t try to argue here on the rightness or wrongness of the Warmists’ theory about the causes of climate change.

    I know from long, multiple experience that they respond to reasonable doubt with fury and defamatory cries of ‘denier’.

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    Thanks to the political and media class’s dim acceptance of shouted propaganda, and their rejection of reason, we are already damaging ourselves.
    I spend much of my life in debate, and will take on any rational opponent. But there are some causes you can’t reason with, and this is one of them.

    They prefer fury to logic. This is always the sign of someone who is not sure of his own case, and hates to hear his inner doubts spoken.

    I have yet to get one of them to respond to this simple point. We recently closed and demolished Didcot ‘A’ coal-fired power station, an efficient, reasonably modern plant with a generating capacity of about 1.44 gigawatts.

    Why? Why not at least mothball it? But no such caution is allowed in the great cause of cutting CO2 emissions.

    Look at the facts: an enormous 259 gigawatts (180 Didcots) of new coal-fired capacity are under development in China. That’s on top of the 993 gigawatts of coal-burning capacity China already possesses (690 Didcots).

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    Perhaps the most dispiriting version of it is to be seen in the painted, beatific faces of the red-robed mime-artists who are to be found on so many of the demonstrations demanding that this country commits economic suicide

    The UK’s whole electrical generation capacity, in all forms of power, is 85 gigawatts (59 Didcots). If we gave up using electricity entirely, it would make no difference at all to the impact of Chinese coal burning on the atmosphere.

    None. Not any. Zero. If we completely abolish all our fossil-fuel generation, including gas, it would likewise not matter in the slightest – except to us, our economy and our standard of living.

    China’s planned increase, yes, increase, in coal power is three times the size of our whole electricity-generation industry – wind, nuclear gas, and all. India is also increasing coal generation and last March reached a coal capacity of 200 gigawatts (139 Didcots).

    I have said it before. I’ll keep saying it. Thanks to the political and media class’s dim acceptance of shouted propaganda, and their rejection of reason, we are already damaging ourselves.

    Wind generation only functions thanks to huge hidden subsidies, paid for by the poor, and is vulnerable to power cuts unless it is backed up by fossil fuel or nuclear generation.

    We are like a thirsty man refusing to drink from a tap because of a water shortage, while his local water company leaves hundreds of leaks unrepaired, allowing thousands of gallons to drain away each hour.

    This is a futile, self-harming gesture. And these demonstrators, ignorant and engorged with self-righteous rage, demand more futility.

    Will sane people have to glue themselves to aircraft and bridges to get anyone to listen? And if they do, will they be indulged by our politicised, biased police, as the Warmists are?

    So, off we go into the cold and dark, while the red-clad propaganda mummers simper and gesticulate.
     
    #509
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  10. dennisboothstash

    dennisboothstash Well-Known Member

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    Not how it sounded
    When you say “these kind of freak storms have, will and always will happen due to natural cycles and would still be happening is us horrible humans where here or not” it sounds much more like you’re telling someone a fact than expressing an opinion.
     
    #510

  11. Howdentiger2

    Howdentiger2 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe worded it wrong then, so sorry for that if that's how it came across. it still doesn't change the fact that that freak weather has always happened and always will happen. The biggest storm for decades would have happened anyway at some point, have we accelerated it? Probably but we don't know for sure
     
    #511
  12. DMD

    DMD Eh?
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    Only from my experience, a fair few of those parading, and even some speaking at rallies don't have much of a handle on the facts either, and they're putting a lot of people off by their preaching. A cynic could argue that they're funded by big business to do that.

    The so called 'rebellion' are making demands for things that are pretty much due to be met here in the hope they can pretend it looks like they achieved something, and shying away from making demands of places that would actually make a difference. The logical outcome if their full demands were met, would be a step back to pre-industrial, feudal times here. Big business, especially overseas, would love that.

    I've said many times, to a fair degree, arguing over it being humans at fault or not only clouds[sic] the issues. Irrespective of the impact on the climate, we just can't keep on using up finite resources, and most people readily accept that. The butterfly wing effect shows how delicate nature is, and the climate will change of it's own accord too. King Canute demonstrated that over a thousand years ago.

    Yes, we should all do our bit, but it needs co-ordination from the top to facilitate that with support for better infrastructure, promoting the lifestyle changes we'll have to make, and bringing business into line. Technological solutions generally create additional problems that need further technological solutions. that create...

    Unless there is a significant change in the financial sector, this is going to cost us all financially and in the way we live. I wonder how many demanding things are done are prepared to make those lifestyle changes? I am, but only if it's across the board, even if it's only here in the UK.
     
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  13. originallambrettaman

    originallambrettaman Mod Moderator
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    I recently received a report from Barclays, who'd done a survey to see how many consumers would be willing to pay extra for new green alternatives for deliveries of goods bought online (major online retailers are currently investing a fortune in trials of drones and electric delivery vehicles etc, as that's what they believe is a high priority for their customers). It turned out that less than a third would be prepared to pay anything extra to fund these more expensive 'green' alternatives.
     
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  14. Kempton

    Kempton Well-Known Member

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    So we've a long way to go to convince people to clean up their act. I think it needs actual laws to be changed. Don't ask people to do this or that, tell them they have to, or face the consequences.

    This isn't that far fetched an idea. We've seen it before with the ban on smoking in public buildings and workplaces. Most of us thought that wouldn't be enforceable, but it was a doddle and passed without a whimper.

    Banning plastic bags for instance. It's a doable thing. The companies who make them would be the same companies who be licensed to make the environmentally friendly bags.

    It's easy. If people don't want to pay more for their goods to be delivered in electric vans, then simply charge them more for their goods to be delivered in petrol or diesel powered vans.

    Just enjoying my lentil soup...
     
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  15. DMD

    DMD Eh?
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    Strictly speaking, electric vans are still only greener, rather than green.
     
    #515
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  16. dennisboothstash

    dennisboothstash Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree there needs to be fundamental change if anything is going to really make a difference
    I kid myself I’m going my bit in some respects, but then I’m happy to jump on a transatlantic flight.
    Like most people I’m a hypocrite
     
    #516
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  17. dennisboothstash

    dennisboothstash Well-Known Member

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    Not many things, if any, are completely green
     
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  18. charon-the-ferryman

    charon-the-ferryman Well-Known Member

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    lentils - from India, Middle East, China, Canada - transported here in a dirty diesel fired ship
     
    #518
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  19. dennisboothstash

    dennisboothstash Well-Known Member

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    Why would the biggest storm for decades have been guaranteed to happen?
    That presupposes that there is a guaranteed gradual increase in storm size whether humans existed or not. You can’t know that.
    As for not knowing for sure whether humans are accelerating climate change, I haven’t seen any evidence that suggests we haven’t contributed in some way, but I suppose the only way we’d know for sure if all humans were removed from the planet so we could find out.
     
    #519
  20. DMD

    DMD Eh?
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    As you say, most of us are hypocrites, and there are a lot of the preachers demanding things of others, that are offering 'justification' for some of the self and same things they do.

    A lot of people will do their bit, as most do care, but we all need help and support to do it.

    Most try to recycle, but we'd rather not be provided with that crap in the first place so there'd be no need for a big truck driving round at 4 mpg to collect it, as one example. The other is the throw away society we now live in, where 'make do and mend' is no longer seen as an option when products come with in built obsolescence, and the spares cost more than the product, or come on a rusty old hulk all the way from China.

    It has to be driven from the top, and they will hide behind consumer demand, and ignore the fact they artificially stimulate it. It's where public protests can work, if done correctly, but moral blackmail and preaching isn't the way in my view, or at least shouldn't be the loudest way as it brings it's own resistance that needs to be overcome before moves forward can be made. A reactionary solution is liable to be far less structured and effective.
     
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