Off Topic Climate change/ pollution

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Howdentiger2 said:
2 huge problems straight off the bat are where and how do people charge who live in either high rise buildings/flats/apartments and those with no off street parking?. That's just 2 easy ones that nobody can answer.

The biggest one I see though is, where does all the extra draw to the grid come from?
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Or the cables under the road. I think most people would be shocked when they see the incoming lines that are feeding an entire street or estate. You would be expecting some mega fat chunky things but they aren’t. If 20 people turned on their kettle at the same time it would melt the underground wire. Now imagine a whole street full sticking 3x that load into their car all at the same time. The cost in rebuilding the entire grid from source to the end would be astronomical.
 
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Amin Yapusi said:
Or the cables under the road. I think most people would be shocked when they see the incoming lines that are feeding an entire street or estate. You would be expecting some mega fat chunky things but they aren’t. If 20 people turned on their kettle at the same time it would melt the underground wire. Now imagine a whole street full sticking 3x that load into their car all at the same time. The cost in rebuilding the entire grid from source to the end would be astronomical.
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Exactly, it's just not feasible, practical or realistic.
 
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Howdentiger2 said:
Exactly, it's just not feasible, practical or realistic.
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Very negative. The cost of all major infrastructure is astronomical... Irrespective of what it is. But the point is that over the next 50 years, the benefit to the economy and society makes the initial cost worth it. It's how we have fibre networks, mobile phone networks, satellite etc all huge initial costs. No one would suggest going back to paper maps because of the initial cost of the GPS network.

It's arguable and I know DMD disagrees, but the money saved over the next 50 years on treating respiratory illnesses caused by fossil fuel usage would make the charging network development seem like chickenfeed.

China have produced nearly 30 million electric cars this year. Japan, Germany and the US are also focused on electric now. Governments are largely behind it. It's not going to go away now, too much is invested. Chaos and costs of digging up streets to prepare the network is inevitable ;
 
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Heimdallr said:
Very negative. The cost of all major infrastructure is astronomical... Irrespective of what it is. But the point is that over the next 50 years, the benefit to the economy and society makes the initial cost worth it. It's how we have fibre networks, mobile phone networks, satellite etc all huge initial costs. No one would suggest going back to paper maps because of the initial cost of the GPS network.

It's arguable and I know DMD disagrees, but the money saved over the next 50 years on treating respiratory illnesses caused by fossil fuel usage would make the charging network development seem like chickenfeed.

China have produced nearly 30 million electric cars this year. Japan, Germany and the US are also focused on electric now. Governments are largely behind it. It's not going to go away now, too much is invested. Chaos and costs of digging up streets to prepare the network is inevitable ;
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Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it shouldn't happen, I just don't expect it to due to £££ and governments kicking the can down the road
 
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Howdentiger2 said:
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it shouldn't happen, I just don't expect it to due to £££ and governments kicking the can down the road
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They’ve not even done what was known to be needed about RAAC in schools, so I tend to agree.
One of the problems with general election cycles is there’s not enough need to invest in things which won’t pay off until later than the next general election.
 
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dennisboothstash said:
They’ve not even done what was known to be needed about RAAC in schools, so I tend to agree.
One of the problems with general election cycles is there’s not enough need to invest in things which won’t pay off until later than the next general election.
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That's true, but correct me if I'm wrong, but all major uk parties are behind electrification, plus pretty much the developed world. Russia's decisions have helped drive this forward.

All the west's infrastructure projects go way over time and way over budget... It's life. Better to be at the front of a shift, than left behind.
 
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Heimdallr said:
That's true, but correct me if I'm wrong, but all major uk parties are behind electrification, plus pretty much the developed world. Russia's decisions have helped drive this forward.

All the west's infrastructure projects go way over time and way over budget... It's life. Better to be at the front of a shift, than left behind.
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Yes they are in principle but ( trying not to go into politics to much mods ) it's very easy for them to be as some parties know they'll never have to actually implement it as they'll never be in power, plus whoever is in, know they won't be by the time they actually have to really do something to implement it.

On a side note, through my day job I had a meeting with a head of development for a major supermarket chain in the UK a few weeks ago, and this very topic came up re EVs and charging. Their main insurance company will not let them install EV chargers in underground/under cover car parks anymore due to risk and when it came to their Own lorries becoming EVs they said it's almost impossible logistically and won't be viable for many many years. To reach parts of Scotland for example, they would need to buy numerous parcels of land completely concrete them, build huge charging facilities that can charge lorries which take huge amounts of electricity and also have space to maintain etc... they approached the local governments in certain areas and where basically laughed out the room when they told them what kind of elec draw they would need.

It's a great idea in theory, but in the real world it's just not doable
 
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Howdentiger2 said:
Yes they are in principle but ( trying not to go into politics to much mods ) it's very easy for them to be as some parties know they'll never have to actually implement it as they'll never be in power, plus whoever is in, know they won't be by the time they actually have to really do something to implement it.

On a side note, through my day job I had a meeting with a head of development for a major supermarket chain in the UK a few weeks ago, and this very topic came up re EVs and charging. Their main insurance company will not let them install EV chargers in underground/under cover car parks anymore due to risk and when it came to their Own lorries becoming EVs they said it's almost impossible logistically and won't be viable for many many years. To reach parts of Scotland for example, they would need to buy numerous parcels of land completely concrete them, build huge charging facilities that can charge lorries which take huge amounts of electricity and also have space to maintain etc... they approached the local governments in certain areas and where basically laughed out the room when they told them what kind of elec draw they would need.

It's a great idea in theory, but in the real world it's just not doable
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The UK is constrained and also saved from progress by the power and bureaucracy of village councils.

Remote areas will never be suitable for electrification until batteries develop more.

Infrastructure developments are great for the economy, once inflation is under control.

Anyone hanging onto their Kodak and Andy's Records shares waiting for a bounce ;?
 
Heimdallr said:
That's true, but correct me if I'm wrong, but all major uk parties are behind electrification, plus pretty much the developed world. Russia's decisions have helped drive this forward.

All the west's infrastructure projects go way over time and way over budget... It's life. Better to be at the front of a shift, than left behind.
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Aye
Right up until the point they have to spend money while telling everyone there isn’t any
 
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dennisboothstash said:
Aye
Right up until the point they have to spend money while telling everyone there isn’t any
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Ye I agree, but money is just printed centrally, isn't it. Then if the majority of those who pull the strings agree, it's not a problem, and if they don't, it is a problem and the economy falls, the government falls and the ppl have to dig deep to sort it out.

150 years ago, decisions were made to take huge loans and build a tunnel system under the largest city in Europe (world?) and have electrified trains running through it. Same arguments were made against... It's now moving 2+ million ppl around a day and keeps London's economy and businesses ticking over... It's the innovation and looking forward that I like and support, plus find change exciting.

It's the mid-90s phone cards Vs. basic mobile phone capability argument. Phone cards were more convenient for most in 1995 due to the numerous piss stinking call boxes and patchy mobile network and limited battery... But it changed rapidly.
 
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TIGERSCAVE said:
I've always had this question in my mind re EV's. The government in this country makes £1 litre plus VAT on diesel and petrol. This bank rolls so much of what this country uses to survive. Could the country survive without this revenue. How long before EV's pay road tax and cars and drivers are charged per mile they do. Its well documented that EV's damage road surfaces far more than conventional combustion cars.
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road tax is more or less pay per mile.
 
Amin Yapusi said:
And each group of people that has been in charge since has decided it’s too much hassle for an idea that’s not theirs. Perfect example really.
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dennisboothstash said:
Aye
Right up until the point they have to spend money while telling everyone there isn’t any
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But it's happening, ok a reduced version but it's still happening. Crossrail's happening. If we didn't have x-party infrastructure developments we'd still be in the dark ages. Anyway half the funding if not more will come from industry who'll see a profit in it eventually. It will happen over a long time and it'll evolve as it goes, what goes in in 20 years time could be quite different from what we envisage now.
 
x said:
road tax is more or less pay per mile.
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Road tax was abolished in 1938. It is VED and is no longer is ringfenced for road building and maintenance and goes straight into the general government coffers.
 
Cityzen said:
Road tax was abolished in 1938. It is VED and is no longer is ringfenced for road building and maintenance and goes straight into the general government coffers.
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i meant to say fuel duty, but my brain was elsewhere.
 
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