I'm not sure how lucky we've been really, certainly compared to last season. Besides losing Ruddy for over half a season, Tettey we've been told played a couple of games whilst carrying an injury, but has only made 19 starts this season. Pilks is arguably first choice on the left but has been missing for a third of the season, and Whittaker was missing for a substantial number of games too. Surman may not have featured much even if he was fit, but he's been injured for a long while as well. Granted we've done well not to lose Bassong, who'd be a major loss, but we've probably been about average this season, whilst (if I recall correctly) we were particularly lucky with them last year. Another feature of this season is that injuries are harder to cope with as we've played the same formation each game. Whilst Lambert would adapt the formation to the players available, Hughton seems to adapt the personnel to the positions. I'm not defending him for it, but it means we suffer more.
I just came back to the board after a while away. I knew when I posted that there would be differing views, hence I put in the last line of my OP. I am disapointed that things could not be discussed maturely.
It was a good OP, and it brought out some interesting points, didn't it? Some verbal fisticuffs, maybe, but that's expected when people are passionate about their team, nothing wrong with that. I found it most enjoyable, and hope any disagreements won't carry on to other topics. I'm sure they won't.
For what it's worth (and it's of little value) my take on the argumentative duo? Life's too short for this, and frankly, very few people care.
When we appointed Hughton, I was delighted. I was sad to lose someone who I still think will go on to be an exceptional manager, but I thought maybe we had got someone who was just as good in a very different way. I was wrong. With each passing week, the limitations of CH become more and more obvious. What worries me most of all is that he gives the impression that he has learnt absolutely nothing from the crazy ups and downs of this season. He is doing this week what he did last week which he did the week before etc etc all the way back to those first friendly matches against German and Dutch teams. His inability to make significant interventions in the course of a match underlines this rigidity and lack of spark. In short, he isn't learning or developing. He is a manager who has several excellent qualities (picking out a player for example), but overall he is mediocre and he seems incapable of further personal development. So do we fire him? Everyone seems to agree not now (although I think we might get 'dead cat bounce' simply because the players would be so overjoyed to be let off the leash and would probably win at least two of those four home games on account of that). But there's no one obvious out there and we could end up with someone who has even fewer good qualities. No point storing up problems for next season by taking a risk on survival this season. Do we fire him if we go down? So far I have been totally consistent this season in saying that we should keep him even if we are relegated. I'm beginning to change my mind, though. It is not relegation per se that has swayed me, it is the way we are going to be relegated. If we go down, basically CH has taken us down due to his negativity and inflexibility. We could probably have given any other manager in the Premiership (except Mark Hughes) 25 points from 17 games and he would have kept us comfortably up. I know CH got us to those 25 points in the first place, but what has happened since seems to have highlighted the fatal flaw in Hughton as a manager. He is pathologically negative and totally inflexible. He cannot inspire players. He trusts systems, not players. Do we fire him if we stay up? If someone obviously better becomes available after the season ends, why not? Everyone says CH is a 'nice' man and he wouldn't deserve it. Well, did Fox deserve to be sidelined for the season without being given a decent chance just because he isn't a defensive midfielder in the Hughton mould? Does Becchio deserve to be given three minutes to prove himself each game? And was it 'nice' of CH in one of his very first interviews to point out the limited quality of the players he had inherited, looking to all the world as if he was covering his ass. CH has been quick enough to discard players who don't fit his precious system by leaving them to rot or sending them out on loan. So the club shouldn't be slow to discard him if we can improve on his very limited box of tricks. He's picked out some very good players for us, we say thank you very much, and then give the job to someone who can actually get the best out of them. Let's not be sentimental. There's nice and there's bland. They're not the same thing.
I completely agree with all that, I've said it already if Wigan go down, we should try and get Martinez in. He has a great eye for a player and has performed miracles at Wigan and they still play great football with such limited resources. RVW would fit in like a glove with Martinez in charge, and I think he would take the job. If you look at the potential jobs available in the summer: Everton? West Ham? I doubt Martinez would want to manage in the Championship. As you said though, I would only change manager if there was a better manager available. I don't like Hughton's style of play, and agree he is too one dimensional. I like the guy but to echo what you said "let's not be sentimental".
Pretty darn good post VC I am currently in the "let's give him until December at the latest" camp, to give time for change and the rational behind not going for his throat just yet is quite simple.......... 1. Most of HIS players this season were to strengthen the back line. This, in the main, has been successful so not too unhappy about that. 2. The early sings for this summers transfer activity are that he intends to address at the rest of the pitch. With the right 3 or 4 players coming in, he may just be able to make his system work at least better if not totally effective and only time will tell. Everyone knows I have been fed up about how we have played (as has everyone else) and I was one of the first one's on here to start making noises about the tactics etc against the odds at that time. I think I only had Carrabuh as an Allie at that time, so perhaps was not taking quite as seriously as I could have been but I am still not thinking a sacking should be order just yet, even if we go down.
Nice to see some common sense prevailing on this thread and I'm sure a lot of what has been said is down to how passionately we care about our club and the fact that CH lacks PL's ability to change tactics in the middle of a game. I guess when we saw how few goals we scored in the pre season friendlies, that should have been a 'warning' as to what to expect, but let's give him a bit more time to turn things around and see who he manages to sign in the summer.
So the problem was Chris Hughton inherited Paul Lamberts players and couldn't make them work in his system. And the solution to that is to get another manager and try and get Hughtons players to work in his new system? Anyone seeing the issue there?
Good point Beef. I'd just like to see CH allow the players to look as though they want to win a game, not to get a 0-0 draw. IMO, it all seems to have downhill from Xmas, apart from the fight back against a 10-man Citeh. I think we can go and attack the opposition and put the opposing defence under pressure. Let's give the fans something to cheer about - starting Saturday!!!!
Yes, I agree, a good point. But a top manager doesn't have a system, he has several. Which is one reason why, in my opinion, Lambert will be at a top club when CH has joined the merry-go-round of decent managers whose names come up each time there is a sacking. And the fact that Lambert can inspire players, which I am starting to doubt that CH can.
Well lamberts obviously doing a great job as well with the players he's inherited so fair point I guess
