Chris Hughton

[Norfolkbhoy]

Are these figures based on actual purchase price or some subjective evaluation of potential purchase price? If the latter, I think this kind of thing is almost worthless, since it is bound to be heavily biased by perceptions (e.g. 'little old Norwich' are going to get seriously undervalued).

I agree that it is pretty subjective but if you look at the table and apply some basic common sense it is probably not too far off the mark. Prior to the Wolf purchase I would imagine our most valuable player (Bassong) cost us £3m. All three promoted clubs spent more on players than we did. Bent and Benteke represent virtually our entire squad value if you were to use the fees paid for them. If you consider resale value then realistically who do we have worth a modest (by PL standards) £5m? Ruddy probably and Snod possibly but otherwise we have a lot of young players who we have invested modestly in with a view to some of them developing into top players and a couple of veterans w(Holt and Wes) who are worth a lot to us but have very little resale value. We have a lot of talent in our squad and arguably more potential than other clubs but I would think that you wouldn't find many people who would argue that that table showing us as having one of the three cheapest squads in the league is wrong so I would suggest that despite our current poor run of form we are still overperforming this season.

 

[JM Fan]

For me, though, it highlights yet another problem we have this season. We don't rotate the squad any more, so we have lost many advantages that we gained last season from PL's use of more players:

1) Players who were tired could get rested; the players who came in were reasonably match-sharp. They also hadn't had their confidence ground down by sitting on the beach for a whole season. They also knew that if they performed well, they stood a good chance of keeping their place in the team.

2) It was difficult for opponents to plan their tactics against us. In contrast, now they don't even need to look at our latest match; they can just look at any match from any point of the season (or pre-season) and know exactly what we are going to do.

3) It made our players very flexible tactically, which meant they could take responsibility for what was happening during the game. In contrast, this season we are trying to turn them into robots who are programmed to follow orders and malfunction if spontaneous reaction is required.

4) Most importantly of all, we no longer have a SQUAD, we have a group of chosen ones who get a game however badly they play and a group who know that the only way they are ever going to get a game is through injury (or a Cup tie), that they are not trusted, that they have no future at the club whatever happens, and that they will be back on the bench as soon as the chosen one is available again. Well, if you throw players on the scrap heap, they're likely to turn into scrap (hence the Luton game).

VC - I think your 4th paragragraph sums up to some extent what has gone wrong this season. IMO - PL rotated the players TOO much, but I would like to see players such as Fox get a few games to see if he can rediscover his form of last season!!!!

 

[canary_max]

VC - I think your 4th paragragraph sums up to some extent what has gone wrong this season. IMO - PL rotated the players TOO much, but I would like to see players such as Fox get a few games to see if he can rediscover his form of last season!!!!

yep agree with this. making a few changes can often freshen things up at the end of the season. i can't see things changing between now and the end of the season, Fox,Jackson etc won't get a look in.

edit: i think Fox could be perfect for swansea as well to match their passing intentions. they are bound to load the midfield with britton, de guzman etc.

 

[DHCanary]

Not sure I agree about Fox. We know Swansea play a passing game, and what has worked really well in the past was stopping them playing that way, but getting in their faces. Playing Fox sounds like an attempt to out-Swansea Swansea, which is unlikely to end well. I'd rather we played Johnson and Tettey, and got in their faces the whole game.

 

[YellowLittle]

I would like him to give the players freedom against Reading. Play Fox to spread the play and play higher up the pitch.

Also Wigan are punching well above their weight and fail to see how them being a rugby town makes their football team irrelevant. I am from a rugby town and the football team is still a big part of this town and although doesn't draw as many fans it still has some die hard Northampton Town fans. If anything its more credit to Wigan Athletic.

 

[Walsh.i.am]

Not sure I agree about Fox. We know Swansea play a passing game, and what has worked really well in the past was stopping them playing that way, but getting in their faces. Playing Fox sounds like an attempt to out-Swansea Swansea, which is unlikely to end well. I'd rather we played Johnson and Tettey, and got in their faces the whole game.

I thought exactly this when I read the previous post. We need to counter their pass and move style, not try and emulate it, or it could end in tears

 

[canary_max]

But DH, agreed in principle, but where's the creativity? do we really need 2 DCMs at home when we need to win ideally. why not play one with Fox, or Howson more forward, maybe not from the start but in the second half if the getting in their faces isn't working. i do agree this tactic is a good one to adopt as a lot of their midfield are small as well - britton and de guzman for example - but as a plan B this might work.
i doubt for one minute he'll pick Fox as we've discussed a lot on here.

 

[Beefforhire-NCFC]

The big player for me tomorrow could be tettey I think.

When he came in he was composed, passing was good, full of energy, willing to have a shot.

He got tired pretty quick, and the injury didn't help, but it's his first season in the prem so it's understandable.

If we get a fully rested tettey that combines well and runs forward to scare the swans defence I think it could be a key to unlocking the ability we know the rest of the team have.

I've said it before, that central role is going to be key for us next year. If we've got a goalie in ruddy a solid back two of bass and turner and a strike force encompassing RVW we need that central role to comets the spine of the team.

Very, vey important. Keep your eyes on tettey tomorrow. Watch him not start now lol

 

[YellowLittle]

I think Snodgrass will be another key man tomorrow, Swansea don't have to many weak links at the back, but Ben Davies could be one. If Snodgrass gives him a horrible first few minutes could be a nervous game for him and his inexperience could prevail. Not sure what Tiendalli is like, as I've not seen him play much but I know he is primarily a fullback. I would play Kamara and Holt up top tomorrow for a bit of pace and power. Bossing the midfield could be a challenge but with an on song Tettey and Johnson they will cope, as they play deeper anyway. I actually think we will be better attacking the wings tomorrow rather than trying to play nice football, they are superior at that style of football and will hammer us at it.

 

[Canary Rob]

Are these figures based on actual purchase price or some subjective evaluation of potential purchase price? If the latter, I think this kind of thing is almost worthless, since it is bound to be heavily biased by perceptions (e.g. 'little old Norwich' are going to get seriously undervalued).

In fact, the answer is, in an odd way, neither.

When any players get bought, due to clubs like Norwich being companies with shareholders and directors, each purchase is carefully assessed for financial reasons. Directors owe a duty to their shareholders so they have to do this to protect themselves (in the case of, e.g. Chelsea, this is less important because Abramovich might make the decision himself).

This means that there is a professional valuation of each player. These are extremely important if a club is ever to sue its directors (e.g. Jean Tigana). There are several different professional valuation companies. They take into account an enormous range of factors, including the player's physical and technical attributes and injury history, but also the club they are at (a bigger club simply adds value to a player), the league/competitions they play in, how they have performed against other teams, etc. Clubs use this valuation to help assess how much they are willing to pay. It is not the only deciding factor (contract might be nearly up, the manager might desperately want them, the player might be English, etc.) clubs use to decide whether to agree to a purchase, but it is a big one. More importantly, it is how the directors protect themselves if anyone was to review the purchase financially.

In essence, these figures are about as objective as you can get, but also they only bear relation to transfer prices when you take into account the other factors. E.g., you can fairly accurately predict that if a player is in the last year of his contract, he will go for around the price listed on the site. If his contract is longer than two or three years, the price will be somewhere between 2 and 3 times the value listed on the site. The multiple goes up when a club desperately wants to buy and the other doesn't want to sell (e.g. Andy Carroll to Liverpool was c. 4 times the value) or can plummet if the club is keen to sell or the player is keen to leave (e.g. Fulham paid about 0.5 of Berbatov's value despite a year left on his contract).

Transfermarkt GmbH & Co. is one of the main professional football player valuers, it is based in Germany. The valuations on their website are not what would be given to a club who had commissioned a full report. However, they are a very reasonable guide. You will notice that transfermarkt also have very good info on the transfer price.


So what this gives us is a relatively objective and reasonably, if not entirely, accurate, guide as to the base value of each player. It does not tell you what price they will/should be bought and sold for, but it helps educate a guess. By base value, we could probably narrow this down to a combination of their technical and physical (including age) attributes and their footballing "achievements" (in the sense of how people generally perceive their career).

 

[DHCanary]

But DH, agreed in principle, but where's the creativity? do we really need 2 DCMs at home when we need to win ideally. why not play one with Fox, or Howson more forward, maybe not from the start but in the second half if the getting in their faces isn't working. i do agree this tactic is a good one to adopt as a lot of their midfield are small as well - britton and de guzman for example - but as a plan B this might work.
i doubt for one minute he'll pick Fox as we've discussed a lot on here.

I don't think the problem is playing 2 DM's, it's how they're used. In previous games they've seemingly been given no license to join attacks. When Tettey was on fire before christmas, he was allowed to roam forward with the ball, and we often saw him around the edge of the area. He helped Wessi provide a link between defence and attack. Whether it's Tettey or Howson alongside Johnson, one of them needs more license to attack, with Johnson playing with much less freedom.

It's something I've said often, but I'd set up in a 4-2-3-1, with mostly standard personnel, but Kamara on the left and Holt up top (and Whittaker back too). When we're attacking down the right with Snodgrass, I'd want Kamara to be getting into the box alongside Holt, and ideally Tettey and Hoolahan on the edge to pick up clearances and recycle the play, or take a shot. Tettey seems (seemed?) to have the energy to play a more box-to-box role, and playing Johnson on the left of a DM duo, he could help cover when Kamara has over-committed. Whilst Garrido has a good cross on him, I'd be looking for him to attack less, and instead have Snodgrass combining with Whittaker down the left, as they did to great effect in the game at the Liberty.

It's probably too demanding for Kamara and Tettey to play like that the whole game, so you tell them they'll only have to play 60-70 mins beforehand, and if we're winning we can sub Kamara for Bennett and Howson for Tettey, and if we're losing you throw Becchio on for Tettey and go to a more attacking 4-4-2.