Chris Hughton

[Canary Rob]

He's not building from the back, he's building up the back. He's knocked down all the successful bits from 3/4 of the team to build up the 1/4 that wasn't as successful.

That is not a sensible trade off. All that had been built over the three years, the sense of confidence, bravery to try things, eagerness to create something has been wiped out.

I have absolutely no idea why anyone would think sticking 11 men behind the ball is the way to stay in this division, and even worse that its the only way we could survive. Just an unbelievable attitude to have. All the success we had with an attacking formula and for some random, bizarre, out of the blue reason the formula is not what we need. In fact, we need the absolute opposite, I mean where do people come up with this stuff!!!!

The worse thing is we've got a chimp in charge who's done exactly that!!!!!

Decent managers don't wreck the good parts to fix the bad, there's a medium in between. I don't mind playing defensive but when you've five in midfield and none of them are making any sort of run to join the penalty area then it just borders on the moronic to then expect the team to create and be "clinical".

Excuse me when I say the man is a ****ing arsehole to expect that from his players.

I understand you're frustrated, as we all are, but I think you need to watch your language. I hope you didn't mean it that way.

As for your actual point, I agree in part. No excuse for being constantly defensive, especially when our players re clearly capable of attacking. However, at the same time I think people have to bear in mind that not only is Hughton different to Lambert, he also had to be different. If he'd try to keep the same style, it would have been a disaster. He had to impose his own philosophy and I maintain that he has done a very good job in the circumstances. Our team is improving technically. It's not pretty, but, assuming he keeps us up, he'll have done what was asked of him by the board and I also think he did it against the odds. When you think of the spending power of So'ton, Wet sham etc, this was always going to be a gritty struggle.

That's why, although I'm pissed off, and won't be watching any away matches, I'm willing to give Hughton until early next season, when he's truly had the chance to reform the team.

 

[ilovedelia]

I understand you're frustrated, as we all are, but I think you need to watch your language. I hope you didn't mean it that way.

As for your actual point, I agree in part. No excuse for being constantly defensive, especially when our players re clearly capable of attacking. However, at the same time I think people have to bear in mind that not only is Hughton different to Lambert, he also had to be different. If he'd try to keep the same style, it would have been a disaster. He had to impose his own philosophy and I maintain that he has done a very good job in the circumstances. Our team is improving technically. It's not pretty, but, assuming he keeps us up, he'll have done what was asked of him by the board and I also think he did it against the odds. When you think of the spending power of So'ton, Wet sham etc, this was always going to be a gritty struggle.

That's why, although I'm pissed off, and won't be watching any away matches, I'm willing to give Hughton until early next season, when he's truly had the chance to reform the team.

If he'd try to keep the same style it would have been a disaster. WHY? We finished 12th last season, why not again this season? If Lambert hadn't ran off we would be playing THAT style and we would all have a different view!

He had to impose his own philosophy (WHY?) and I maintain that he has done a very good job in the circumstances. How exactly has he done a very good job?

Our team is improving technically. HOW exactly is it improving. By having NO shots on target week after week, and playing 8 in defence?

 

[canarie-chippy]

Colin any one?

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

If he'd try to keep the same style it would have been a disaster. WHY? We finished 12th last season, why not again this season? If Lambert hadn't ran off we would be playing THAT style and we would all have a different view!

He had to impose his own philosophy (WHY?) and I maintain that he has done a very good job in the circumstances. How exactly has he done a very good job?

Our team is improving technically. HOW exactly is it improving. By having NO shots on target week after week, and playing 8 in defence?

Couldn't agree more chap, Rob's post makes no sense to me either

 

[Canary Rob]

WHY? We finished 12th last season, why not again this season? If Lambert hadn't ran off we would be playing THAT style and we would all have a different view!

Because he isn't Lambert. He doesn't have Lambert's unique ability to work out how to change a game with a substitution. He doesn't have Lambert's searing self-confidence/arrogance to throw on three strikers. Not even SAF could have maintained it. SAF might have done better because he would have done it his way, but it wouldn't have been Lambert's. Lambert, I honestly believe, is the best manager we've ever had and his system would only work for him.

I'd have thought that was obvious.

He had to impose his own philosophy (WHY?)

See above. Stick to what you know. Hughton got Newcastle out of the Championship with a record points/goals tally and into mid-table Prem team. Arguably laid the foundations for Pardew.

How exactly has he done a very good job?

At least do me the credit of questioning accurately. "In the circumstances" doesn't really need spelling out, but I shall. Lost our manager, captain transfer request, terrible defensively, favourites for relegation, technically probably the worst team in the league after Reading. He masterminded home wins against Arsenal and Manure, etc., etc.

HOW exactly is it improving. By having NO shots on target week after week, and playing 8 in defence?

That's not quite what I meant. I mean the technical qualities of the individuals he has brought in. They have been undeniably a technical improvement.

I'm not happy with how the team is playing, don't get me wrong. However, I'm going to give Hughton a fair assessment.

 

[Walsh.i.am]

Our team is improving technically.

I'd love you to explain just how you come yo that conclusion

Full backs who bomb forward about once per month.
Wingers who are so obsessed with helping their respective full backs out that they rarely dare to cross the halfway line!

A link man so isolated that he rarely gets a touch of the ball.
And striker(s) who receive absolutely NO service because everyone else is so driven/paranoid about their ****ing defensive duties!

Two rigid banks of four - normally with Wes in or around the centre circle to give them 'backup' - how the **** is that a technical "improvement"?

I look forward to being proved incorrect, Rob Over to you.

 

[Canary Rob]

I'd love you to explain just how you come yo that conclusion

Full backs who bomb forward about once per month.
Wingers who are so obsessed with helping their respective full backs out that they rarely dare to cross the halfway line!

A link man so isolated that he rarely gets a touch of the ball.
And striker(s) who receive absolutely NO service because everyone else is so driven/paranoid about their ****ing defensive duties!

Two rigid banks of four - normally with Wes in or around the centre circle to give them 'backup' - how the **** is that a technical "improvement"?

I look forward to being proved incorrect, Rob Over to you.

As above, I shouldn't have used the word team. I meant the technical ability of the individuals signed. Bassong, Snodgrass, Turner, Tettey are all technically of a higher calibre than Lambert's players in equivalent positions.

I'd be very surprised if you disagree, but if you do fair enough

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

As above, I shouldn't have used the word team. I meant the technical ability of the individuals signed. Bassong, Snodgrass, Turner, Tettey are all technically of a higher calibre than Lambert's players in equivalent positions.

I'd be very surprised if you disagree, but if you do fair enough

I'm sorry, but if you think Tettey is "technically better" than David Fox then we're clearly not to agree on much here.

 

[YellowLittle]

I would give Hughton another season, but things would have to improve. If we were to sack him at the minute I think that would be unfair and also ridiculous decision, a new manager now, I don't think will be any better than what Hughton is doing.

I know there is a few if's in this point, but if Wigan go down we should try and get Martinez in. I like Hughton ,although not his style of play but highly rate Martinez and would have far more resources here compared to Wigan so could be an attractive proposition for him. I think he is a better manager than Hughton anyway.

If Hughton does ever depart we need to keep hold of Ewan Chester, who I think is probably more to praise for our successful signings this season.

 

[ilovedelia]

Because he isn't Lambert. He doesn't have Lambert's unique ability to work out how to change a game with a substitution. He doesn't have Lambert's searing self-confidence/arrogance to throw on three strikers. Not even SAF could have maintained it. SAF might have done better because he would have done it his way, but it wouldn't have been Lambert's. Lambert, I honestly believe, is the best manager we've ever had and his system would only work for him.

I'd have thought that was obvious.



See above. Stick to what you know. Hughton got Newcastle out of the Championship with a record points/goals tally and into mid-table Prem team. Arguably laid the foundations for Pardew.



At least do me the credit of questioning accurately. "In the circumstances" doesn't really need spelling out, but I shall. Lost our manager, captain transfer request, terrible defensively, favourites for relegation, technically probably the worst team in the league after Reading. He masterminded home wins against Arsenal and Manure, etc., etc.



That's not quite what I meant. I mean the technical qualities of the individuals he has brought in. They have been undeniably a technical improvement.

I'm not happy with how the team is playing, don't get me wrong. However, I'm going to give Hughton a fair assessment.

Sorry Rob but Lambert is NOT the best manager we've ever had, John Bond, Ken Brown, Dave Stringer laid the foundation for the 'Norwich Way' attractive forward thinking play with a solid defence, Lambert did the forward thinking bit, it doesn't make him the best!
I was at the Arsenal and Man U games, they were both very very poor on the day, it was certainly NOT a masterclass/mind of anything! What about the way he masterminded the 4-0 defeat at Old Trafford?????

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

Sorry Rob but Lambert is NOT the best manager we've ever had, John Bond, Ken Brown, Dave Stringer laid the foundation for the 'Norwich Way' attractive forward thinking play with a solid defence, Lambert did the forward thinking bit, it doesn't make him the best!

Once again I totally agree, and find that first paragraph of Rob's hyperbole of the very highest order.

 

[Canary Rob]

I'm sorry, but if you think Tettey is "technically better" than David Fox then we're clearly not to agree on much here.

Well that's a pretty pathetic post. You pick one player who plays in a totally different manner and assume the rest of what I've said is therefore disagreeable. Good analysis. How about actually working through what I've said and, like I did with Carrabuh's post, explain which bits you agree with or disagree with and why.

And for your information, what I've seen of Fox this season, Tettey is a damn sight better technically.

 

[JM Fan]

Just been doing a bit of research on the line-ups for 3 very different games this season and you can see that on each ocasion, the teams are VERY similar

Swansea
Bunn, Whittaker (Barnett 90), Russell Martin, Bassong, Garrido, Howson, Johnson, Snodgrass, Hoolahan, Pilkington, Holt (Morison 83). , Subs (not used): Rudd, Tierney, Fox, Elliott Bennett, Jackson.

Sunderland
Bunn, Russell Martin, Turner, Bassong, Garrido, Howson, Bradley Johnson, Elliott Bennett, Hoolahan (Camp 32), Snodgrass (Whittaker 88), Kamara (Holt 64). , Subs (not used): Ryan Bennett, Fox, Jackson, Becchio.

Wigan
Camp, Russell Martin, Turner, Bassong, Garrido, Howson (Tettey 85), Johnson, Elliott Bennett, Hoolahan (Becchio 85), Snodgrass, Kamara (Holt 80). , Subs (not used): Steer, Whittaker, Tierney, Fox


I'm struggling to understand how we played well and created chances against both Swansea and Sunderland, yet against Wigan, with almost the same 11 on the pitch, we were DIRE!!!!
Let's hope CH employs the same tactics for the rest of the season that he did agaijnst 'the Swans' and 'the Black Cats.

 

[Canary Rob]

Sorry Rob but Lambert is NOT the best manager we've ever had, John Bond, Ken Brown, Dave Stringer laid the foundation for the 'Norwich Way' attractive forward thinking play with a solid defence, Lambert did the forward thinking bit, it doesn't make him the best!
I was at the Arsenal and Man U games, they were both very very poor on the day, it was certainly NOT a masterclass/mind of anything! What about the way he masterminded the 4-0 defeat at Old Trafford?????

Ok, so there's one paragraph of my post that you disagree with, but surely that is a matter of opinion? I said "I honestly believe". How can you be so sure.

At least have the common courtesy to consider my whole response rather than picking a hole in one tiny aspect that is entirely opinion.

As for your last line, yes, a 4-0 whipping was not impressive, nor the manner, but don't forget that Manure are miles better than us. We are getting ahead of ourselves and in serious danger of sounding like QPR. If you don't think it was Hughton's tactics that beat Arsenal and Man U then I'm afraid we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

For the last time, I AM NOT HAPPY WITH HUGHTON EITHER. I DO NOT THINK WE ARE PLAYING WELL. I DO NOT ENJOY WATCHING US AT THE MOMENT. I AGREE IT HAS TO CHANGE. However, I think we just need a bit more objectivity.

 

[YellowLittle]

Well that's a pretty pathetic post. You pick one player who plays in a totally different manner and assume the rest of what I've said is therefore disagreeable. Good analysis. How about actually working through what I've said and, like I did with Carrabuh's post, explain which bits you agree with or disagree with and why.

And for your information, what I've seen of Fox this season, Tettey is a damn sight better technically.

Christ, David Fox has only played about 3 minutes all season, bit of a harsh comment.

To be honest, I think Hughton's preference to power and physicality rather than technical ability has been his downfall. If he had played Fox we would have more points. (To quote ColuMike) FACT

 

[Canary Rob]

Once again I totally agree, and find that first paragraph of Rob's hyperbole of the very highest order.

Oh for Christ sake you've outdone your last post for patheticness.

What is hyperbolic about saying that Lambert is not Hughton? What is hyperbolic about saying that Lambert was a better manager than Hughton? What exactly is hyperbolic about saying that is SAF had taken over our team, he probably would have got us playing his way? Opinions can't be, by their very nature, hyperbolic.

Either address what I say in a constructive way or don't respond. All I've got from you is petty nit-picking and deliberate misinterpretation of what I've written.

 

[YellowLittle]

Just been doing a bit of research on the line-ups for 3 very different games this season and you can see that on each ocasion, the teams are VERY similar

Swansea
Bunn, Whittaker (Barnett 90), Russell Martin, Bassong, Garrido, Howson, Johnson, Snodgrass, Hoolahan, Pilkington, Holt (Morison 83). , Subs (not used): Rudd, Tierney, Fox, Elliott Bennett, Jackson.

Sunderland
Bunn, Russell Martin, Turner, Bassong, Garrido, Howson, Bradley Johnson, Elliott Bennett, Hoolahan (Camp 32), Snodgrass (Whittaker 88), Kamara (Holt 64). , Subs (not used): Ryan Bennett, Fox, Jackson, Becchio.

Wigan
Camp, Russell Martin, Turner, Bassong, Garrido, Howson (Tettey 85), Johnson, Elliott Bennett, Hoolahan (Becchio 85), Snodgrass, Kamara (Holt 80). , Subs (not used): Steer, Whittaker, Tierney, Fox


I'm struggling to understand how we played well and created chances against both Swansea and Sunderland, yet against Wigan, with almost the same 11 on the pitch, we were DIRE!!!!
Let's hope CH employs the same tactics for the rest of the season that he did agaijnst 'the Swans' and 'the Black Cats.

It is interesting, but the line up's don't indicate defensive mentality, lack of creative freedom given to players. The amount of times we hammer the ball in the box hoping for Kamara to get his head on it.

 

[Canary Rob]

Christ, David Fox has only played about 3 minutes all season, bit of a harsh comment.

To be honest, I think Hughton's preference to power and physicality rather than technical ability has been his downfall. If he had played Fox we would have more points. (To quote ColuMike) FACT

Fair enough re not very much game time, though you have to admit he didn't impress in cup matches.

I think all of Hughton's signings have been based upon an improvement in technical ability, other than Becchio, which I think was a very odd panic buy. Particularly the ones i outline above. Don't you? Even Kamara is better technically than our other strikers, Holt aside, although i agree he is there for his strength and speed(besides I think he's been a good signing.) Tettey combines a decent touch with power. Yes he isn't quite the metronome that Fox is, but I think he brings more to the game and is more the modern DM in the Song mould.

I think you're right that Fox would a least have given us a different tempo and style. Of course, it's impossible to say we would have done better, especially as I've always found Fox's form to be too variable. I suppose the principle problem is that Hughton doesn't seem to have the faith Lambert had in the players. Until we see a team Hughton has faith in, unfortunately I can't see any risks being taken.

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

Well that's a pretty pathetic post. You pick one player who plays in a totally different manner and assume the rest of what I've said is therefore disagreeable. Good analysis. How about actually working through what I've said and, like I did with Carrabuh's post, explain which bits you agree with or disagree with and why.

And for your information, what I've seen of Fox this season, Tettey is a damn sight better technically.

Ahem....

Bassong, Snodgrass, Turner, Tettey are all technically of a higher calibre than Lambert's players in equivalent positions.

So David Fox didn't play centre midfield last season then, the equivalent position to where Tettey plays?

And sorry, if you really think Tettey is a "damn sight better technically" than Fox then you clearly don't know what you're on about so I needn't bother wasting my time "working through" the rest of whatever bilge you put up

 

[Canary Rob]

Just been doing a bit of research on the line-ups for 3 very different games this season and you can see that on each ocasion, the teams are VERY similar

Swansea
Bunn, Whittaker (Barnett 90), Russell Martin, Bassong, Garrido, Howson, Johnson, Snodgrass, Hoolahan, Pilkington, Holt (Morison 83). , Subs (not used): Rudd, Tierney, Fox, Elliott Bennett, Jackson.

Sunderland
Bunn, Russell Martin, Turner, Bassong, Garrido, Howson, Bradley Johnson, Elliott Bennett, Hoolahan (Camp 32), Snodgrass (Whittaker 88), Kamara (Holt 64). , Subs (not used): Ryan Bennett, Fox, Jackson, Becchio.

Wigan
Camp, Russell Martin, Turner, Bassong, Garrido, Howson (Tettey 85), Johnson, Elliott Bennett, Hoolahan (Becchio 85), Snodgrass, Kamara (Holt 80). , Subs (not used): Steer, Whittaker, Tierney, Fox


I'm struggling to understand how we played well and created chances against both Swansea and Sunderland, yet against Wigan, with almost the same 11 on the pitch, we were DIRE!!!!
Let's hope CH employs the same tactics for the rest of the season that he did agaijnst 'the Swans' and 'the Black Cats.

Interesting point.

I think it's a lack of flexibility when things are obviously not going right. When it works, it really seems to work. This boils down to what I see as Hughton's lack of faith in most of Lambert's players, who inevitably are usually our options from the bench.