You pay attention to the yellows. End of. If both are being shown there's clearly been a mistake, so you take caution. I don't care what's in the rules, it's common sense. If you're at a set of traffic lights, they turn green and the car in front of you stalls, what do you do?
Broken Lewis.
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It wasn't a contradiction though, the yellow flags stated that in (their sector) there were marshals on track but with the other marshal post down the road were telling the driver that there are no problems in (their sector). They are not telling them the sector before them is clear, quite the opposite.
There are about 7-10+ marshal sectors in each driver sector for each group of marshals, they all have there own area to worry about and dictate what is worthy of what flags (except blues, the FIA tell them when to wave). In f1 though im not 100% certain who controls the Red flag situation, quite likely the FIA.
This is a very poor but quick paint drawing on how I see it and how the Stewards most likely see it as well. Thought it would be bigger but oh well...
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Drivers are given detailed map info before racing at these circuits and are regulary briefed every day, same thing applies to the Marshals and medical crew. There are no excuses when you forget where each post ends at, it's not that hard since you only have to wait until the next group of marshals come along in your line of site, then carry on.
Glad I could clear it up.
There was another situation while watching a youtube video with the same problem, you had waved yellows and then 30-40 meters after the crash there was a green flag being waved and people where pointing out he was doing something wrong lol. I just had to correct them since the yellow doesn't go through the whole sector... If anything the guys waving the green are helping the race to continue and assuring the drivers to continue racing and everything is safe for them to do so.
Here's the official FIA map of the circuit, the green dots are the marshal posts
If I could bother I can easily tell you what each post would be looking after, though im sure it's obvious to see. Worst place for marshaling has to be the one at turn 4, how the hell they will run 150-200 meters with fire equipement in under 10 seconds is beyond me, Tilke, you have a flaw in your circuit again mate...
There was another situation while watching a youtube video with the same problem, you had waved yellows and then 30-40 meters after the crash there was a green flag being waved and people where pointing out he was doing something wrong lol. I just had to correct them since the yellow doesn't go through the whole sector... If anything the guys waving the green are helping the race to continue and assuring the drivers to continue racing and everything is safe for them to do so.
Here's the official FIA map of the circuit, the green dots are the marshal posts
You must log in or register to see images
If I could bother I can easily tell you what each post would be looking after, though im sure it's obvious to see. Worst place for marshaling has to be the one at turn 4, how the hell they will run 150-200 meters with fire equipement in under 10 seconds is beyond me, Tilke, you have a flaw in your circuit again mate...
Very good of you to have spent the time to do that Silver.
BUT, Button had not cleared the sector before he went for theovertake. And if the danger had all but cleared, why should drivers who don't slow down bear any more responsibility than those who have to overtake cars in front who have repsonded to yellow flags? Jenson himself came on to try and justify what he did so he must have thought he was still in a yellow sector?
I'd like to see a reverse angle to Jenson's situation to see the same view as we had for Hamilton. If he overtook before the green light, then he was in breach of the rules.
BUT, Button had not cleared the sector before he went for theovertake. And if the danger had all but cleared, why should drivers who don't slow down bear any more responsibility than those who have to overtake cars in front who have repsonded to yellow flags? Jenson himself came on to try and justify what he did so he must have thought he was still in a yellow sector?
I'd like to see a reverse angle to Jenson's situation to see the same view as we had for Hamilton. If he overtook before the green light, then he was in breach of the rules.
Not 100% fact, having to pass the green light to allow passing, he was close when he officially overtook him. He was near the pitlane entrance and in his favour could say he thought Narain was going in the pits which it did look like it at the time.
Marshals all have reference points on what area they look after, it seems the white line was it.
Marshals all have reference points on what area they look after, it seems the white line was it.
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I don't think it helps when everyday there is an ex driver basically skinning him alive. I must have seen 10+ reports now of Jackie Stewart slagging him off. Yes LH has made mistakes this year (quite a few of them 
) but he hasn't at any point endangered anyones lives. Some of the stuff these ex drivers are saying is ludicrous.
) but he hasn't at any point endangered anyones lives. Some of the stuff these ex drivers are saying is ludicrous.
Jenson covered himself by radioing the pits saying he HRT was going dangerously slow, a bit like the trick Mika used to do, he would lift his hand off the steering wheel to acknowledge the marshals without actually slowing down.
I believe if there is confusion or doubt about yellows then the driver should always make safety the first priority it's like seeing a traffic light go amber from red you should always stop.
In racing double waved yellows means be prepared to stop, not do your fastest lap, even the lap before that when the whole sector was yellow Lewis did his personal best lap. only just short of the fastest.
The big thing for me was, what was there to gain by going quicker it was only practice, having the fastest time on the board meant nothing, I think he was lucky to get away with just the three place drop especially as he is on his third warning.
Sometimes I wonder if he will ever learn.
I believe if there is confusion or doubt about yellows then the driver should always make safety the first priority it's like seeing a traffic light go amber from red you should always stop.
In racing double waved yellows means be prepared to stop, not do your fastest lap, even the lap before that when the whole sector was yellow Lewis did his personal best lap. only just short of the fastest.
The big thing for me was, what was there to gain by going quicker it was only practice, having the fastest time on the board meant nothing, I think he was lucky to get away with just the three place drop especially as he is on his third warning.
Sometimes I wonder if he will ever learn.
Go stand at where those marshals were on practice 1 and tell me you wouldnt feel slightly pissed off that somebody was going 130+ mph at you with their DRS open and on the rumble strip which on a bad day on a dusty track would result in a spin in their direction.
Yeah some drivers are going a bit potty with some of the incidents, but this was disrespectful to the marshals out there from Perez and Lewis by not having their intrests considered completly.
Since you might not be a marshal you wouldn't be pissed off by it, but when a driver for me doesnt give a damn about my welfare because he considers a practice time more important than not putting me in a coffin, then maybe I shouldnt really care for his welfare and finish my sandwich before putting out his inferno that he is in because I consider hunger more important than saving his backside.
He's not the only driver out there that might be inclined to not take notice of the situation and try exploit the fact that conflicting notices might let them get away with it. He his however a driver that will face heavy criticism for it from the viewing public where as others drivers seem immune to this. Drivers tend to try and get away with things when they think they can.
That being said, he deserves the penalty and as mentioned here, probably didn't need to push his luck in practice. Given the crap year he's had, I think that maybe the need to top the timesheet took control. Taking notice of flagging should always be a priority and ALL drivers should err on the side of caution in those situations.
That being said, he deserves the penalty and as mentioned here, probably didn't need to push his luck in practice. Given the crap year he's had, I think that maybe the need to top the timesheet took control. Taking notice of flagging should always be a priority and ALL drivers should err on the side of caution in those situations.
I don't think it helps when everyday there is an ex driver basically skinning him alive. I must have seen 10+ reports now of Jackie Stewart slagging him off. Yes LH has made mistakes this year (quite a few of them
It is not the drivers place to make a judgement call on what is and what isn't safe for a marshal, a marshal's life is none negotiable when there is an incident where he/she is put in danger he/she is the most important person on or off the track bar no one, and a lot more important than a driver trying to prove a point.
In the two practice sessions I saw two drivers lose control of their cars and hit the barriers, there was no guarantee that Lewis or Perez were going to negotiate that part of the track safely, it is not good enough to say in hindsight "nobody was put in danger" and anyway the statement is blatantly not true.
Monkeying around under caution situations or in the pitlane deserves to be punished harshly. No two ways about it.
As SgtBhaji says, a yellow flag is a yellow flag. But while technology suggesting he was in the clear and the lack of a car on the circuit do not in any way, shape or form exonerate Hamilton, they were mitigating factors relative to Perez's offence. Given other circumstances, the stewards were sensible to punish them in the same way.
I do however notice that the very same people who cry about Hamilton getting too much coverage are talking about Hamilton. I notice that several people who (rightly) say Perez does not get enough credit for what he does right are not lambasting him as harshly as Hamilton for a (slightly) more severe offence.
Let's get back to the more general debate on pushing things to the limit. If the rules are working properly, breaking them more often should be of no consequence, because you should be hurting yourself more the more you do it. If an individual or team is statistically gaining by breaking them more often than their rivals, the blame for this being possible would lie squarely with the Führer's International Assistance.
Notwithstanding that Hamilton has been called into the stewards room more often than he should have been, there is no question that he has been by some distance one of the two worst offenders, and there is no question that he has lost the most as a result. System seems to be working fine in relation to Hamilton if you ask me.
I do however notice that the very same people who cry about Hamilton getting too much coverage are talking about Hamilton. I notice that several people who (rightly) say Perez does not get enough credit for what he does right are not lambasting him as harshly as Hamilton for a (slightly) more severe offence.
Let's get back to the more general debate on pushing things to the limit. If the rules are working properly, breaking them more often should be of no consequence, because you should be hurting yourself more the more you do it. If an individual or team is statistically gaining by breaking them more often than their rivals, the blame for this being possible would lie squarely with the Führer's International Assistance.
Notwithstanding that Hamilton has been called into the stewards room more often than he should have been, there is no question that he has been by some distance one of the two worst offenders, and there is no question that he has lost the most as a result. System seems to be working fine in relation to Hamilton if you ask me.
So everyone agrees Hamilton had no excuse for not slowing down with a clear sight of teh road ahead, but everyone is quiet or making excuses for Jenson overtkaing!?
So what Hamilton should have done was blast through the sector, then come on the radio to say there was no danger but acknowledge that he saw the flags. So he would have got let off then like Jenson?
So what Hamilton should have done was blast through the sector, then come on the radio to say there was no danger but acknowledge that he saw the flags. So he would have got let off then like Jenson?
But like I've said many times above, Jenson was in the green marshal zone when he completed the overtake, Lewis floored it in the yellow flag zone. If he overtook in the yellow zone he should also get a penalty but he didn't. Yes he called in thinking he did something wrong but as I've been saying, found out he just made the green area before he did do it, meaning he did nothing wrong by the rule book.
If it's confirmed he was in the green then in the clear! From the angles shown on replays it wasn't clear.
Just him in quali to sort out now
TBH the only person who was following the rules to letter was the HRT driver who Jesnon was complaining about as he was the only one who could have stopped if requested to, which is what double waved yellows mean.
To take the rule to its literal meaning you are spot on.
All drivers should slow and be prepared to stop under double waved yellows.