Off Topic BREXIT
- Thread starter Chazz Rheinhold
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I like what Tony Benn said about the EU. Then to hear Cameron say we'll be on our own and an outcast etc etc **** off you **** I'm English and we're an independent island nation.
"When I saw how the European Union was developing, it was very obvious that what they had in mind was not democratic. I mean, in Britain you vote for the government and therefore the government has to listen to you, and if you don’t like it you can change it. But in Europe all the key positions are appointed, not elected – the Commission, for example. All appointed, not one of them elected.
And my view about the European Union has always been not that I am hostile to foreigners, but that I am in favour of democracy. And I think out of this story we have to find an answer, because I certainly don’t want to live in hostility to the European Union but I think they are building an empire there and they want us to be a part of that empire, and I don’t want that."
"When I saw how the European Union was developing, it was very obvious that what they had in mind was not democratic. I mean, in Britain you vote for the government and therefore the government has to listen to you, and if you don’t like it you can change it. But in Europe all the key positions are appointed, not elected – the Commission, for example. All appointed, not one of them elected.
And my view about the European Union has always been not that I am hostile to foreigners, but that I am in favour of democracy. And I think out of this story we have to find an answer, because I certainly don’t want to live in hostility to the European Union but I think they are building an empire there and they want us to be a part of that empire, and I don’t want that."
I wouldn't say I'm an anarchist but I sympathise with some elements of anarchism. I hate communists of all colours for their destruction of anarchist Catalonia and the Free State in Ukraine. That is unforgivable in my eyes. I'm more interested in philosophy than politics to be honest. I'm a fan of Nietzsche and Kierkegaard's existentialism and Stirner's anarchism, all great philosophers. I also understand Nietzsche abhorred nationalism and considered himself a European but even he would be at odds with the EU and what it has become. I'm not voting Leave to turn my back on Europe but I am turning my back on bureaucracy.
Old Labour was always Eurosceptic. New Labour very pro-EU and whatever Corbyn's little cult has turned out to be are just voting Remain because they think voting Leave is racist. His support is comprised of millennials who care more about identity politics rather than socialism. Corbyn lost any respect I had for him when he started campaigning for Remain.
The EU and Britain both has issues with democracy. Just because we have an unelected head of state, unelected second chamber and a first past the post system doesn't mean we should stay in a institution just as undemocratic. If we want an elected head of state, elected second chamber and proportional representation, we can vote for a party advocating it. We can't vote out the European Commission. If we Leave it can start a catalyst of change; if we remain the status quo will persevere.
He gave it up, temporarily, to get reforms to EU funding which never actually happened.
Basically, he ****ed up.
It means it stopped and we've got the full rebate back since the arrangement ended in 2013.
Better ask Blair.
Anything that saw arch lefties Tony Benn and Peter Shore and Enoch Powell sharing a platform against it makes you wonder about it.
Exactly.
I liked the vids dutch put up of Galloway. He complimented Farage for at least saying what he believes in. Look at Corbyn, disgraceful.
I really hope its out if for nothing else other than mischief and i think the British public are ready to create some.
Every "right" we have through the EU. We can enact ourself, we can also get rid of any of the ****e the EU have inflicted on us.
The workings of the rebate, which actually isn't a rebate but a reduction in contributions, leads to some interesting situations. Like it not been worthwhile for the UK applying for some funding because if it's effect on it, something which other countries aren't constrained by.
How do you know what the political landscape will be in 10, 20 years from now? In today's politics no-one would give it up, what's to say that a deal needs to be done in the future that dilutes or negates the veto?
I understand the sentiment but I don't think this is the right time for mischief.
I don't believe anyone can really know which way is best. Every argument for can be countered by an equally convincing argument against so I think people will vote with their hearts. There will be losers and winners as always, the rich will stay rich, the poor will stay poor.
My greatest fear is that the vote is for OUT due to a lot of otherwise disinterested folk voting that way purely on the immigration issue.
I'd hate to be part of a country where racism and narrow-mindedness had won the day.
We won't get made an example of by the EU for leaving. They will be too busy stopping their corrupt house of cards from tumbling down.
We leave, the Dutch will be next, and the Germans not long after that.
We leave, the Dutch will be next, and the Germans not long after that.
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