Borini

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Smug in Excelsis said:
<laugh> First time anyone's ever called one of my posts that mate, I'll take it as a compliment.

I reckon Borini will come on a permanent deal with a 'get out' clause, and a release amount, hoping to attract a bid after a good season.

To be honest it would be better for us to have another season long loan during which time we can find a suitable long term replacement.

I know people will have a pop at me for suggesting another loan but, **** it, if he signs a 10 year contract he'll only be here for a season.

At least if it's a loan we won't end up feeling betrayed like we did with Bent & Gyan.

I'll tell you what, here's summat else no one seems to have sussed.

Borini's best football is always when he's on loan!

He's only scored ONE goal, in his entire career, when he's not been on loan .......... eh?

That was off the bench in a 6-0 win at Newcastle when Liverpool had already won.
(He might've scored in some minor European match that I can't remember.)

When the pressure is on, as it would be after signing a big deal at Sunderland, he'd be a totally different player.

How would we feel if we fork out £14 million, on a highly paid 5 year contract, and he's ****e?

Why is no one else trying to sign him, either here or abroad, when goals are gold?
Click to expand...
Oh dear, you really don't like the lad do you?
He is 23 years old and has had 2 bad injuries, a broken ankle and dislocated shoulder, that have laid him up for lengthy spells.
His career represents a total of 82 games and 23 goals. He has only played 17 games with a permanent employer, the bulk of which (13) would've been "comeback from injury" games with Liverpool. He got 22 goals from 65 loan appearances, so not a bad return is it?
You've discounted us signing him permanently because "I reckon Borini will come on a permanent deal with a 'get out' clause, and a release amount, hoping to attract a bid after a good season". This shouldn't be a reason not to sign him, it's the way of the world. All the top players and clubs do it, and we want the best players we can afford at the club.
We have watched Borini grow over the course of last season. If we eventually have to pay the full £14m over the 5 year contract, he won't have been ****e, quite the opposite.
 
thickhead said:
Oh dear, you really don't like the lad do you?
He is 23 years old and has had 2 bad injuries, a broken ankle and dislocated shoulder, that have laid him up for lengthy spells.
His career represents a total of 82 games and 23 goals. He has only played 17 games with a permanent employer, the bulk of which (13) would've been "comeback from injury" games with Liverpool. He got 22 goals from 65 loan appearances, so not a bad return is it?
You've discounted us signing him permanently because "I reckon Borini will come on a permanent deal with a 'get out' clause, and a release amount, hoping to attract a bid after a good season". This shouldn't be a reason not to sign him, it's the way of the world. All the top players and clubs do it, and we want the best players we can afford at the club.
We have watched Borini grow over the course of last season. If we eventually have to pay the full £14m over the 5 year contract, he won't have been ****e, quite the opposite.
Click to expand...

Wrong, with almost everything you say I'm afraid.

On the contrary, I'd be delighted if we signed him ..... Poyet seems intent on bringing him here and that's good enough for me.

I think he fits the system well and would do a good job although the fee is way too high imo although not my concern.

I haven't discounted us signing him permanently at all, where did I say that?

I didn't say the clauses etc were reasons not to sign him.

I'm not saying he's ****e but he may turn out to be half the player we currently believe and not worth the money.

How many players can we say that about over the last few years?

Whatever the case you can't deny he doesn't score when he's not on loan, doesn't that concern you?

Perhaps he's under less pressure when it's a club he has no allegiance to.
 
Good work Smug. For 14 million, I want him here less and less. Much better deals out there, surely.

His agent and him are coming across as real conniving so and so's.
 
The Funk with the Junk said:
Can I just say. Borini is a Bologna fan, not a Parma fan.
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I already have,

"He was born 30 minutes from Bologna where him and his dad supported the team."

Nevertheless, you'd have thought he'd want to play for Parma having signed a contract with them and being a local club.

He stayed for a month and went off on a loan ........ seems to be a bit of a pattern.

He also seems to have a very long 'recuperation' period after injuries which would be a concern ...... could be wrong, I'll check <ok>
 
Bill Bradshaw from SSN - Sunderland fan had this to say about Borini

From what I hear, we will have either Borini or a decent striker of similar quality before Sept 1.

I hear they are lining up at least one top forward in case Borini does not agree to the move next week. One is PL player (contacts have been made aware) and they have eyes on another in Europe. But Gus wants it to be Borini.

Bill, is there any truth in the rumour about Borini wanting to come but Liverpool preventing him from leaving due to clauses and related fees....

I don't claim to know all the details but there does appear to be something in this. It's not simply a case of Borini sulking in the corner waiting for a better offer.
The fact is he has not asked to leave; Liverpool have agreed a deal with Sunderland to sell him so Fabio's advisers want what is due to him in loyalty payments as per his contract. Once he decides he's certain he wants to come, Liverpool will have to pay what he's owed.
You know how these things work... Liverpool could then say to SAFC: you want him, you pay it.
Not sure how far down this road we are, but all the signs point to it being at least a factor in the delay with the player keeping schtum.

and on wickham

Are WHU going to pursue their interest in Connor Wickham or is it a non story?

Sundays mornings won't be the same without your slot thanks for cheering me up on many a Sunday morning.

Good luck bud.

They may well do. Man down with Carroll crocked and he's young, English and could well fit into the Fat Sam template.
Hope Gus gives him no encouragement... And that the kid wants to stay.

I think he would have signed the contract by now if he was intending to stay?
Not necessarily. At this early-ish stage in the negotiation, he'll be following his agent's instructions and that will be to sit tight and see just how much Sunderland want him to stay.
Meanwhile, the first 6-8 weeks of the season will inform both Gus and rival managers just how much the kid might be worth... Unless a rival comes in during the next 3 weeks and tests the water with a bid of more than we paid for him in the first place.
 
Smug in Excelsis said:
I already have,

"He was born 30 minutes from Bologna where him and his dad supported the team."

Nevertheless, you'd have thought he'd want to play for Parma having signed a contract with them and being a local club.

He stayed for a month and went off on a loan ........ seems to be a bit of a pattern.

He also seems to have a very long 'recuperation' period after injuries which would be a concern ...... could be wrong, I'll check <ok>
Click to expand...

Very common in Italy this though Smug, clubs buying a player and farming them straight out, Inter & Sampdoria in particular do it all the time.

There's a lad Robert Acquafresca who has been owned by Cagliari & Geno (I think) for about 6 seasons, and farmed out, brought back almost constantly, it's not unusual over there.

This half ownership bollocks, it's ridiculous.
 
Gustavo's Gonads said:
Very common in Italy this though Smug, clubs buying a player and farming them straight out, Inter & Sampdoria in particular do it all the time.

There's a lad Robert Acquafresca who has been owned by Cagliari & Geno (I think) for about 6 seasons, and farmed out, brought back almost constantly, it's not unusual over there.

This half ownership bollocks, it's ridiculous.
Click to expand...

That's true enough ...... I'm just putting the case that Borini isn't usually one to 'fight for his place'.

Which is why I'm struggling to believe his Liverpool stance, if it's even true.

Moves = Money these days and Borini seems to like them.

Perhaps it's the thought of being 'the main man' at a club that bothers him.

As I've said before, he's only scored 1 goal for a 'permanent club' which is why signing him worries me.
 
Smug in Excelsis said:
That's true enough ...... I'm just putting the case that Borini isn't usually one to 'fight for his place'.

Which is why I'm struggling to believe his Liverpool stance, if it's even true.

Moves = Money these days and Borini seems to like them.

Perhaps it's the thought of being 'the main man' at a club that bothers him.

As I've said before, he's only scored 1 goal for a 'permanent club' which is why signing him worries me.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I see the viewpoint your getting at there, but that could also be the fact he's never been a first pick at a parent club.

He's done 2 great loans in England Swansea & Sunderland, and it's clear when he gets a run he performs, another mentality thing I have to point out, he was pretty poor for that 2 onth run after Wembley, in fact he was ****ing awful.

He ended on fire, as did the whole team, but is there evidence he's a 'when the goings good' player, a Swansea promotion season and all of his goals for us coming at 'good times'?

If so, then to be fair he might be unreal for Liverpool, but there are a lot more questions than 'why hasn't he signed'.

Is he a good footballer? ****ing rights, very good, great feet and engine, reasonable vision too, should he be our universe, no, not at all.

Y
 
Smug in Excelsis said:
I already have,

"He was born 30 minutes from Bologna where him and his dad supported the team."

Nevertheless, you'd have thought he'd want to play for Parma having signed a contract with them and being a local club.

He stayed for a month and went off on a loan ........ seems to be a bit of a pattern.

He also seems to have a very long 'recuperation' period after injuries which would be a concern ...... could be wrong, I'll check <ok>
Click to expand...

Sorry fella, missed that post.<ok>
 
The Funk with the Junk said:
Sorry fella, missed that post.<ok>
Click to expand...

What I was suggesting is that, if he has no loyalty to his home country, we can't expect him to have any for us.

You have to ask, if Colback is the massive Newcastle supporter he claims how could he play for Sunderland?

Were his family at Wembley cheering him on, did they applaud him against Newcastle?

Aren't the supposed to be 'massive Mags fans'?
 
Wise Men Say........... said:
Bill Bradshaw from SSN - Sunderland fan had this to say about Borini

From what I hear, we will have either Borini or a decent striker of similar quality before Sept 1.

I hear they are lining up at least one top forward in case Borini does not agree to the move next week. One is PL player (contacts have been made aware) and they have eyes on another in Europe. But Gus wants it to be Borini.

Bill, is there any truth in the rumour about Borini wanting to come but Liverpool preventing him from leaving due to clauses and related fees....

I don't claim to know all the details but there does appear to be something in this. It's not simply a case of Borini sulking in the corner waiting for a better offer.
The fact is he has not asked to leave; Liverpool have agreed a deal with Sunderland to sell him so Fabio's advisers want what is due to him in loyalty payments as per his contract. Once he decides he's certain he wants to come, Liverpool will have to pay what he's owed.
You know how these things work... Liverpool could then say to SAFC: you want him, you pay it.
Not sure how far down this road we are, but all the signs point to it being at least a factor in the delay with the player keeping schtum.

and on wickham

Are WHU going to pursue their interest in Connor Wickham or is it a non story?

Sundays mornings won't be the same without your slot thanks for cheering me up on many a Sunday morning.

Good luck bud.

They may well do. Man down with Carroll crocked and he's young, English and could well fit into the Fat Sam template.
Hope Gus gives him no encouragement... And that the kid wants to stay.

I think he would have signed the contract by now if he was intending to stay?
Not necessarily. At this early-ish stage in the negotiation, he'll be following his agent's instructions and that will be to sit tight and see just how much Sunderland want him to stay.
Meanwhile, the first 6-8 weeks of the season will inform both Gus and rival managers just how much the kid might be worth... Unless a rival comes in during the next 3 weeks and tests the water with a bid of more than we paid for him in the first place.
Click to expand...

Very interesting read hopefully this is as true as we can get with both 'Borinigate' and the contract talks with Whickham, interesting days ahead.

Never dull being a SAFC supporter :emoticon-0107-sweat
 
Smug in Excelsis said:
That's true enough ...... I'm just putting the case that Borini isn't usually one to 'fight for his place'.

Which is why I'm struggling to believe his Liverpool stance, if it's even true.

Moves = Money these days and Borini seems to like them.

Perhaps it's the thought of being 'the main man' at a club that bothers him.

As I've said before, he's only scored 1 goal for a 'permanent club' which is why signing him worries me.
Click to expand...
Fair points smug, but is it his choice to go out on loan? I thought this was the clubs decision he plays for? I'm not sure..he was the main man at our club last season although on loan this suggests he's determined to succeed wherever he goes. I'm interested to see how many loans he's had and goals scored against goals scored for permanent clubs?
 
Aussie blackcat85 said:
Fair points smug, but is it his choice to go out on loan? I thought this was the clubs decision he plays for? I'm not sure..he was the main man at our club last season although on loan this suggests he's determined to succeed wherever he goes. I'm interested to see how many loans he's had and goals scored against goals scored for permanent clubs?
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I think he only scored once ....... that was when he came on as sub when Liverpool were already pasting Newcastle at SJP.

That's what worries me about having him here on a 4/5 year contract tbh.
 
Smug in Excelsis said:
I think he only scored once ....... that was when he came on as sub when Liverpool were already pasting Newcastle at SJP.

That's what worries me about having him here on a 4/5 year contract tbh.
Click to expand...

Yep your dead right 'again' <ok> That is bloody scary.. 1 goal for a permanent club, right now for me I put my trust in Gus Poyet and I'll support whatever he does..
 
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