Big Fraser

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I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
I was led to believe that Fonte was the heart and soul of the defense... that is why Lovren was bad once he left. And why Alderwiereld and VVD both slotted in so easily.

So are you saying that our defense has actually been **** this entire time and it's really only Forster's rock-solid presence in goal that keeps us steady? Or that we have the wrong team captain, because Fonte is not actually very resolute but actually panics quite easily without the right GK behind him?

Three weeks ago, Wanyama was mailing it in and needed to be moved. Now suddenly Wanyama has to be re-signed because he's vital. Two games ago, it was Davis who was inspiring this bunch of lazy no-gooders through sheer effort and desire to win. Except we just played well twice without him.

That's really confusing. Is it possible that all our midfielders actually suck, and the difference between us losing 6 out of 7 or whatever and us doing well now is all Forster? Then I wonder how we managed the first two months of the season? Or how we ever did anything under Pochettino under Boruc?
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Not sure what your point is? Did I tell you Fonte was the heart and soul of the defense or was this a random go at everyone or anyone? Not sure I have lead you to believe anything. If I have perhaps you shouldn't take any notice.

This latest post of yours is very bizarre. Very strange assumptions and words put into my mouth/words. I genuinely do not know where you are coming from. I think I'll quietly bow out.
 
I don't believe that any of us has the vaguest clue about how much confidence the team draws from Forster in goal, and how much that impacts performance. It doesn't mean I don't believe in such things as morale, confidence team unity, and other "intangibles," just that I don't believe you can get an accurate picture from watching 90 minutes on a pitch once a week.

I can only comment on what I see, which is that for the most part our defense has been solid and Forster has not often been forced to make great saves.

This is not a negative view, it's just not buying into silly fan narratives. If I were to agree that Forster has a massive impact on our defense, then the implication is that Fonte, VVD and others are really not that good.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
I

This is not a negative view, it's just not buying into silly fan narratives. If I were to agree that Forster has a massive impact on our defense, then the implication is that Fonte, VVD and others are really not that good.
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Not really. That would be your interpretation of that implication. I wouldn't take it as that at all.
 
I have played in a team with an exceptional leader in goal. A real mountain of a man at that. It made a decent defence a hell of a lot better - and when he missed games we were pants. Goalkeepers are more than shot stoppers. Fraser is hugely important.
 
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fatletiss said:
Not really. That would be your interpretation of that implication. I wouldn't take it as that at all.
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No, that is just logic.

If Fonte is rock solid at the back regardless of who is behind him then we can't give Forster credit for the defense playing well.

Conversely, if it is Forster who lifts the defense then Fonte must not be that good.

Maybe it is Koeman who fires up the team and keeps them confident.

Probably it is a bit of everything. But I have no way of knowing how to apportion these intangibles, and I do not believe that anyone without inside knowledge can.

All I can go by is what I see on the pitch.
 
spacedsaint said:
I have played in a team with an exceptional leader in goal. A real mountain of a man at that. It made a decent defence a hell of a lot better - and when he missed games we were pants. Goalkeepers are more than shot stoppers. Fraser is hugely important.
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And I have played GK behind a **** defense and I can tell you that having a good defense in front of you makes a huge difference and helped me play much better. So there you go. It proves nothing.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
No, that is just logic.

If Fonte is rock solid at the back regardless of who is behind him then we can't give Forster credit for the defense playing well.

Conversely, if it is Forster who lifts the defense then Fonte must not be that good.

Maybe it is Koeman who fires up the team and keeps them confident.

Probably it is a bit of everything. But I have no way of knowing how to apportion these intangibles, and I do not believe that anyone without inside knowledge can.

All I can go by is what I see on the pitch.
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How about we accept that we just disagree?
 
Thing is, the goalie sees everything, more so than anyone else on the pitch, and the good ones never stop shouting orders. He has to be a leader, though not the only one on the pitch.
 
We had a good defense last year with Forster in goal. But we also had a good defense the year before with Boruc in goal. And we had a lousy defense with SKD in goal, but does anyone doubt his leadership qualities?

We also have a good defense this year without Forster. Steklenberg had 7 clean sheets in 19 games. And a very decent 1.12 goals against average. So he is right up there amongst the best keepers.

And as others have already pointed out on the boards, a major factor in our goal prevention is that Steklenberg faced an unusually small amount of shots. But guess what? Last year Forster also faced very few shots.

So considering our defense seems to be good no matter who is playing behind them, it's difficult to say how much of an impact Forster has in that regard.

But we do know that Steklenberg's save percentage is rather poopy and Forster's is quite good. And yesterday we all saw Forster make some great saves that would have gone in against a lesser keeper.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
But we do know that Steklenberg's save percentage is rather poopy and Forster's is quite good. And yesterday we all saw Forster make some great saves that would have gone in against a lesser keeper.
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Mmmm if only the players knew that too, eh? That might just give them more confidence, but hey, where's the logic in that?
 
Confidence in the keeper must have an effect on the defence. If Forster says leave it, a defender will leave it. If a defender has doubts, he puts it in row Z. Games can turn on small margins. And as Ronald says, we weren't playing badly when we lost, just needed to put chances away and stop the odd goal.....fine margins.
 
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fran-MLs little camera said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...l-hunger-when-youve-been-out-for-so-long.html

Interview from the Telegraph with our Fraser.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-horror-op-patched-knee-using-parts-body.html

And the Mail.
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It always seems amazing to me that the body can cope with having bits used as spare parts somewhere else. Fraser had part of his hamstring and a piece of groin muscle used to strengthen his patellar tendon, but with all the rehabilitation he has undergone I doubt whether those areas are now any weaker than they were, such is the regenerative power of the body. Likewise with Jay Rod's ACL, for which, ironically, they used part of one of his patellar tendons to repair the damage.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
No, that is just logic.
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Is it? But no player plays on it's own. You can't watch players in isolation. Player performances will always degree depend to a certain on their teammates. Having a great goalkeeper behind him will make Fonte look better, as will having a great defender in front of him make Forster look better. It can't be a coincidence that we had 4 clean sheet in a row with Forster on goal. One or two matches, maybe, but four? No way. Forster's to do something with it.
 
SouthamptonFCroatia said:
Is it? But no player plays on it's own. You can't watch players in isolation. Player performances will always degree depend to a certain on their teammates. Having a great goalkeeper behind him will make Fonte look better, as will having a great defender in front of him make Forster look better. It can't be a coincidence that we had 4 clean sheet in a row with Forster on goal. One or two matches, maybe, but four? No way. Forster's to do something with it.
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Four clean sheets in a row is always luck. Even if you had the best defense in the world backed by the best GK in the world, the odds are very strongly against that happening.

Besides, we already have a pretty good idea of what happens when you put Fonte and Fraser together. We had that all last season. They averaged a little more than 3 goals per 4 games. Which is quite impressive, really. It's about the best you can reasonably expect from a defense, which is why us and Chelsea were the two best defensive teams in the Premier League by a longshot. But 3 goals in 4 games is nowhere close to 0 goals in 4 games.
 
fatletiss said:
Mmmm if only the players knew that too, eh? That might just give them more confidence, but hey, where's the logic in that?
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Not really sure why you seem so intent on trying to bust my balls here. I've never said that the defense might not draw confidence from having a better keeper in goal.

All I said was that Arsenal was really the first game where one could truly appreciate what Forster brings to the team... and the fact that it took this long was not a reflection on Forster, just that we have a very good defense regardless so Forster doesn't have that many opportunities to show his skill.

You said yourself that whatever confidence he brings to the team is unquantifiable. So I have no idea what you're even trying to argue. Apparently you think I'm being negative by not being able to quantify the unquantifiable.
 
Forster is very good. Fonte is very good. Both believe in each other and play better together. In any sport and in anything in life in you believe in your partner the result is much more than the sum of the 2 parts. Conversely, if you have no confidence in your partner your game goes to ****, no matter how good you are.
 
SaintinSerbia said:
Forster is very good. Fonte is very good. Both believe in each other and play better together. In any sport and in anything in life in you believe in your partner the result is much more than the sum of the 2 parts. Conversely, if you have no confidence in your partner your game goes to ****, no matter how good you are.
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Very true

I remember Kompany last season making all kinds of errors. It's not because he suddenly became a bad player, it's just that he lost faith in his team mates and started playing in hero mode. Feeling that he and only he could deal with every attack. Straying out of possession fire fighting.

It's the same watching Lovren for Liverpool (especially last season). He was doing jobs a defensive midfielder should be doing, because Liverpool didn't have one.
 
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