Beefy's Corner - The Off-Topic Chat Thread

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Oli_BN1 said:
the cruelty of veal, etc etc
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Now veal is interesting, as modern veal farming is nowhere near the cruelty that is imagined by most people, plus the calves that are raised for veal are 99% of the time male cows born from dairy farming cows. They have no purpose to the dairy farmers so are slaughtered at birth if they cannot be sold for veal. Veal may be contraversial but at least it isn't wasteful.
 
Oli_BN1 said:
My point was that a fairly insignificant number of foxes were actually killed by fox hunters, certainly not as many as are killed by culling. I alway saw the banning of fox hunting as the majority public opinion outweighing the opinion of a minority because their sport was seen as "cruel" and as you said, "unnecessary". Is any sport "necessary"? No ofcourse not. How cruel is fox hunting really, in the grand scheme of things? A few hundred foxes get ripped to death by dogs every year? Compared to the thousands of hens that are cruelly transported and caged for eggs/ poultry, the poor treatment of all the Danish pigs whose meat gets imported by us, Cows being kept constantly pregnant for milk, the cruelty of veal, etc etc

What people don't like about fox hunting is the toffs in red jackets.
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The toffs point may be true for some but I think there are other reasons for many. I don't have a particularly strong opinion either way but my old sixth form tutor made the point that fox hunting is designed for pleasure - if you really want to hunt foxes with dogs you could get lurchers (I think that was the breed he suggested, it's been a few years now) and they'll catch the fox within a few hundred yards. Fox hunters use slower dogs with so the fox is subjected to a long, slow, terrifying chase
 
Puck said:
The toffs point may be true for some but I think there are other reasons for many. I don't have a particularly strong opinion either way but my old sixth form tutor made the point that fox hunting is designed for pleasure - if you really want to hunt foxes with dogs you could get lurchers (I think that was the breed he suggested, it's been a few years now) and they'll catch the fox within a few hundred yards. Fox hunters use slower dogs with so the fox is subjected to a long, slow, terrifying chase
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I think the cruelty side of it is exaggerated though. Is the fox really "terrified"? He's running away from a predator, this is just nature. Does he have the mental capacity to be terrified? What about all the poor defensless (free-range) chickens that are killed by foxes, shouldn't we consider their fear and kill all the foxes?
 
Oli_BN1 said:
I think the cruelty side of it is exaggerated though. Is the fox really "terrified"? He's running away from a predator, this is just nature. Does he have the mental capacity to be terrified? What about all the poor defensless (free-range) chickens that are killed by foxes, shouldn't we consider their fear and kill all the foxes?
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In the natural world, foxes are on the top of their particular part of the food chain, and have no natural predators. Unlike hares or deer, who are naturally chased by predators, foxes normally just keep well away from larger carnivores and apart from the prey, everyone is happy. Since wolves were killed off in this country, foxes have neither rivals or predators, so fox hunting is something that foxes have no evolutionary capability of coping with.

Fox hunting is cruel, unnecessary, and sick.
 
fran-MLs little camera said:
If we lived in a vast savannah, you would have a point, Pomps. However, there is no room for roaming herds of large herbivores in the UK. Race horses as a breed would die out...just as the large breeds of dray horses are rare now.
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I say just set them loose and see what happens. It'll be sort of like cows in India.
 
Oli_BN1 said:
I think the cruelty side of it is exaggerated though. Is the fox really "terrified"? He's running away from a predator, this is just nature. Does he have the mental capacity to be terrified? What about all the poor defensless (free-range) chickens that are killed by foxes, shouldn't we consider their fear and kill all the foxes?
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If my cat has the capacity to be terrified, and she does, then a fox probably does too. Chickens are far dumber.
 
Giancarlo Fisichella pretty much broke down in tears in the middle of an interview on Eurosport, saying the result is meaningless and he doesn't know whether to continue. Poor guy :(
 
ChilcoSaint said:
In the natural world, foxes are on the top of their particular part of the food chain, and have no natural predators. Unlike hares or deer, who are naturally chased by predators, foxes normally just keep well away from larger carnivores and apart from the prey, everyone is happy. Since wolves were killed off in this country, foxes have neither rivals or predators, so fox hunting is something that foxes have no evolutionary capability of coping with.

Fox hunting is cruel, unnecessary, and sick.
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Totally agree . And further to Oli bn1 point about cruelty to other animals , how many wrongs make a right ?
 
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