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I'm 50/50 on the drivers losing points. On the one hand they were involved and should be punished but on the other hand they were obeying orders from the team to complete the test. They must have terms in their contracts that say they should take part in 'tests' and other team related events otherwise it's a breach of contract or they will face a fine, if you get what I'm trying to say.

Rosberg and Hamilton didn't seem to concerned when asked by the media about it but they must be quite worried deep down.
 
Believe In Lewis said:
I'm 50/50 on the drivers losing points. On the one hand they were involved and should be punished but on the other hand they were obeying orders from the team to complete the test. They must have terms in their contracts that say they should take part in 'tests' and other team related events otherwise it's a breach of contract or they will face a fine, if you get what I'm trying to say.

Rosberg and Hamilton didn't seem to concerned when asked by the media about it but they must be quite worried deep down.
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I don't think the drivers have done a lot wrong, no one would turn down a bit of free testing even if it's against the rules. And even if one of them refused their team mate would do it anyway so you might as well get some benefit yourself. But they're part of a team, the team has cheated, it's entered two championships and has gained an illegal advantage in both. Therefore they should be punished in both in my opinion.
 
Hamilon tweets everything down to his dogs dinner (apparently) and to keep shtum during and afterwards about, what is alledgedly, a 'simple tyre test for Pirelli', says to me someone knew they were being a bit naughty, I think Merc should be kicked out of the WCC and the drivers lose their monaco points, but not award the win to Vettel
 
Oh they knew to keep it hush, hush... no two ways about that.

I'm not sure about taking away Nico's win. I'm not convinced the test made that happen or even helped. We were all expecting Merc and Nico to be strong in Monaco
 
Miggins said:
Hamilon tweets everything down to his dogs dinner (apparently) and to keep shtum during and afterwards about, what is alledgedly, a 'simple tyre test for Pirelli', says to me someone knew they were being a bit naughty, I think Merc should be kicked out of the WCC and the drivers lose their monaco points, but not award the win to Vettel
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I think this is a very good point. Not sure I agree with the punishment, though ;)
 
I don't want to strip him of the win, leave the record books as they are, but take the points away, the drivers MUST be punished as well as the team as they were involved in the test
 
Miggins said:
I don't want to strip him of the win, leave the record books as they are, but take the points away, the drivers MUST be punished as well as the team as they were involved in the test
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I wonder if they will follow what happened to BAR in 2005(?) where they were banned for a couple of races (punishment enough these days as will then effectively lose 1000km of data recovery from the race weekends) so in theory will put them back on a level playing field with erveryone else?
 
Only 8 days now till we find out absolutely nothing. I'm still of the opinion that the FIA are far from blameless in all this and as such it'll be pushed under the bonus funded carpet.
Mercedes have taken advantage of the system no doubt but much like loopholes if they technically haven't done anything wrong what can the FIA do. Still assuming the FIA letter actually does back up Mercedes of course.
 
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if this all turns into one big fudge. Or maybe I'm just thinking wishfully... ;)
 
MaxWhiplash said:
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if this all turns into one big fudge. Or maybe I'm just thinking wishfully... ;)
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You'd think it would be clear cut, Mercedes have tested a 2013 car in a illegal test with Pirelli. So many wrongs but yet those with the power to punish seem to be tip toeing round the whole situation. Someone high up has mucked up and I wouldn't be surprised if rules are twisted to fit a agenda and somehow make this not damage F1.
 
I thought banning Mercedes from all Fridays for the rest of the season would be fair but they won't do that.

I can't see a ban either, simply because the next two races are the British and German ones, British fans will go mad if Lewis is banned for it, and the Germans won't like it if Nico and Mercedes miss their home grand prix.
 
and the amount of engines Mercedes is looking to be supplying in the near future F1 can't be upsetting them to much. The more worrying thing at the moment is tyres, if Pirelli walk F1 is leaving it awfully late to get tyres for 2014. No tyres mean no racing, perhaps this is another problem with punishment, how to not punish Pirelli so they don't call it a day themselves.
 
AbsolutelyGlorious said:
I thought banning Mercedes from all Fridays for the rest of the season would be fair but they won't do that.

I can't see a ban either, simply because the next two races are the British and German ones, British fans will go mad if Lewis is banned for it, and the Germans won't like it if Nico and Mercedes miss their home grand prix.
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Massive $ fine, slap on the wrist in the form of a "suspended" sentence.
Brawn to fall on his sword, WCC points for Monaco lost but Drivers keep theres..

RBR and Ferrari may not deem that a severe enough punishment but FIA and F1 don't want to cut off their nose to spite their face and piss off Mercedes and let them leave with their engines..

Nothing to happen to Pirelli, they'll (FIA) blame Merc for bringing their 2013 car to the test!
 
jonnybaws said:
Massive $ fine, slap on the wrist in the form of a "suspended" sentence.
Brawn to fall on his sword, WCC points for Monaco lost but Drivers keep theres..

RBR and Ferrari may not deem that a severe enough punishment but FIA and F1 don't want to cut off their nose to spite their face and piss off Mercedes and let them leave with their engines..

Nothing to happen to Pirelli, they'll (FIA) blame Merc for bringing their 2013 car to the test!
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BrightLampShade said:
and the amount of engines Mercedes is looking to be supplying in the near future F1 can't be upsetting them to much. The more worrying thing at the moment is tyres, if Pirelli walk F1 is leaving it awfully late to get tyres for 2014. No tyres mean no racing, perhaps this is another problem with punishment, how to not punish Pirelli so they don't call it a day themselves.
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Don't Mercedes also supply the standard ECU that all the cars on the grid use? I think it might have been Webber who had a problem with his at the start of the second race of the season.
 
Believe In Lewis said:
I'm 50/50 on the drivers losing points. On the one hand they were involved and should be punished but on the other hand they were obeying orders from the team to complete the test. They must have terms in their contracts that say they should take part in 'tests' and other team related events otherwise it's a breach of contract or they will face a fine, if you get what I'm trying to say.

Rosberg and Hamilton didn't seem to concerned when asked by the media about it but they must be quite worried deep down.
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The drivers will not lose points unless it can be proven that they personally cheated at the Monaco Grand Prix. As you say, BiL, they are employees – members of a team with a management structure (which does not include the drivers) to organise what the team does and take responsibility for its decisions.


Miggins said:
I don't want to strip him of the win, leave the record books as they are, but take the points away, the drivers MUST be punished as well as the team as they were involved in the test
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I cannot foresee the Monaco results being altered, Miggins. Neither can I see drivers losing World Championship points. See above response to BiL.


BrightLampShade said:
Only 8 days now till we find out absolutely nothing. I'm still of the opinion that the FIA are far from blameless in all this and as such it'll be pushed under the bonus funded carpet.
Mercedes have taken advantage of the system no doubt but much like loopholes if they technically haven't done anything wrong what can the FIA do. Still assuming the FIA letter actually does back up Mercedes of course.
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Yes. I've felt right from the start, that each party has seen weaknesses in communication as potential ground to justify their respective actions; and that this will likely form the backbone of defence. In this sense, it might be considered by one or more parties that the FIA have been less than clear, which could point fingers its presiding toad. One might easily question a naïve management style which tends to leave loopholes and/or arguments for scapegoats; and was also why I wanted Ari Vatanen (who I believe was seen as too strong a threat to the establishment).


MaxWhiplash said:
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if this all turns into one big fudge. Or maybe I'm just thinking wishfully... :wink:
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Some might wish for mudge to chuck, fudge to muck, or a wooden spoonerism to stir the blue (Max (!)).


BrightLampShade said:
You'd think it would be clear cut, Mercedes have tested a 2013 car in a illegal test with Pirelli. So many wrongs but yet those with the power to punish seem to be tip toeing round the whole situation. Someone high up has mucked up and I wouldn't be surprised if rules are twisted to fit a agenda and somehow make this not damage F1.
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This may seem pedantic, BLS, but since Mercedes and Pirelli are yet to field their respective defences, at this stage it is only alleged that the test was illegal.


jonnybaws said:
Massive $ fine, slap on the wrist in the form of a "suspended" sentence…
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I agree with this, your first sentence, Jonny. Most likely.


SpacePhoenix said:
Don't Mercedes also supply the standard ECU that all the cars on the grid use? I think it might have been Webber who had a problem with his at the start of the second race of the season.
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No, SpacePh. As BLS has pointed out, it is McLaren's ECU.
 
The thing is, surely sporting rules take precedence over company contratual agreements (yes, I'm showing my naivity at how things are done in the real world).
 
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