Artificiality

[cosicave]

A fantastic thread this Genji. Very well done indeed, you have inspired some good thinking from many people and there are some great responses from the high quality of this forum.

So, off the top of my head and in response to the whole thread, not necessarily just Genji's original points…

The first thing I want to address is the relatively trivial matter of backmarkers unlapping themselves. So what? - If it's down to DRS, the compliment can be repaid very soon. But of course, the biggest contributing factor is tyres and if a lapped car has fresh tyres, surely it is wrong to artificially restrict performance simply because it comes across a leading car trying to cling to a cliff? Any overtaking should be the result of a faster car passing a slower one, regardless of who it is or what position they hold in the race. (This is how it's always been incidentally).

KERS
Charging the unit should be entirely restricted to recovering energy and should NEVER be allowed in the pits! - To do so is entirely against the spirit of the idea in the first place. A very simple test can be made before a car is allowed out of its box and pre-charging should be outlawed.
Also, the development of KERS for its original 'green' argument - that which justified it in the first place - would be given some momentum (sic) if it were far less restricted, since it would warrant more effort to get more from it.

DRS
I am not at all happy with the concept of an overtaking zone. Artificially restricting its use to a video-game power-up-pad is the very reason it is perceived as a gimmick. It is a great 'technology': it squarely addresses the perennial criticism of aero-dependant cars which cannot pass each other and although perhaps overdue, it is brilliantly simple! - So why restrict it so severely? I would like to see DRS becoming part of a driver's arsenal, such that any driver could make use of it at any point they choose, subject to being within one second of any leading car.

That's enough for now. I'll say something about tyres and maybe some other stuff later.
Cheers.
©

 

[Bergkamp a Dutch master]

I won't whinge on either as i've got a date with a coronary between 4 and 5.50. You know there is debate about mind versus voice control of inanimate objects? Well I often test out whether my large TV responds to both commands (being a Gunner). For a while I've tried just thought control - rarely works - 'cos the defence STILL commits suicide passes across the penalty area. Laterly I've tried shouting - but they don't shoot, tippy-tappy is all they know. Then once heart rate starts to ease off at the final whistle - and gloom descends - I then get treated to AW recounting that we have mental strength and are still going to lift the trophy. Sorry about the diversion but I figure spreading the misery helps?

 

[EternalMSC]

Looks like cosicave and genji are starting to have a relationship

 

[Bergkamp a Dutch master]

He's not self-styled 'Cosi' for nothing !!

 

[genjigonzales]

Looks like cosicave and genji are starting to have a relationship

Pardon me, I thought this forum was not606. I appear to have stumbled into 606 by mistake.

 

[EternalMSC]

It was a joke.
You seem funny though, location: Earth lol

 

[Delete Me]

It's ok, when the next GP comes around we will ALL! be hating each other again.

 

[DHCanary]

It's ok, when the next GP comes around we will ALL! be hating each other again.

I was kind of wondering about that. Its sort of a lull at the moment with everyone getting on nicely, I'm waiting for a good dose of controversy in Turkey, then watch some members "inner keyboard-warrior" return. Still, I'm not complaining at the moment!

 

[Delete Me]

People just don't want to put their foot in their mouth yet and make an idiot of themselves.


























I'm different though, VETTEL YOUNGEST DOUBLE CHAMPION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[genjigonzales]

I was kind of wondering about that. Its sort of a lull at the moment with everyone getting on nicely, I'm waiting for a good dose of controversy in Turkey, then watch some members "inner keyboard-warrior" return. Still, I'm not complaining at the moment!

You mean "everyone getting on nicely" is in itself a kind of artificiality?

Since we're kicking our heels for a fortnight waiting for the next GP maybe someone should create a controversial thread, like "pick a driver and name three things you dislike about him" or "five worst drives of all time" or something like that. Then, at the end, we can count up who nominated what and decide how dastardly Schumacher was.

*calm down, Manny - it's just a joke*

 

[Delete Me]

Oh yer, everybody wants to get the next win and rub it into the fans of the nearest driver. That's what I did to my whole family at Abu Dhabi last year, it's great fun when your brother is an Alonso fan and your mother is a Webber fan.

 

[Bergkamp a Dutch master]

Jensen Button - he's good looking, lots of money, pick of tasty girls, never seems ruffled, excellent athlete (triathlete), smooth composed top driver. God how many reasons do you want?.

 

[Forza Bianchi]

brother is an Alonso fan

You must be honored to have such an intelligent brother.

 

[EternalMSC]

LOL
Can't wait for turkey...Schumacher for a shock pole!

 

[Delete Me]

You must be honored to have such an intelligent brother.

Credit to him he did stick it out when I ripped into Alonso when he was with Renault.

Little bastard is only 14 and he still doesn't know his place lol...

 

[genjigonzales]

... of course, the biggest contributing factor is tyres and if a lapped car has fresh tyres, surely it is wrong to artificially restrict performance simply because it comes across a leading car trying to cling to a cliff? Any overtaking should be the result of a faster car passing a slower one, regardless of who it is or what position they hold in the race.

And a lot of that artificiality comes from the effect of the dirty air coming off the car in front. I don't mean that the wake per se is artificial - that's a natural, physical effect of driving an object through the air. The degree of the effect, being compounded by the aerodynamic design of the car ahead increasing the heat and turbulence and that of the car behind being so greatly affected by it, however, is an artificial result of designers' dependence on aerodynamics. When a visibly faster car can't get close to even being in a position to overtake then it's being artificially held back. In a way, I consider the stage F1 got to aerodynamically to be contrary to competition, i.e. racing as opposed to simply being fast. DRS (in the race) is just an anti-turbulence device that allows the faster car (on fresher tyres) to overcome the artificial effect of both cars' aerodynamics.

 

[cosicave]

Yes, Genji.

Let's take stock for a moment…

1/ All cars move through air and are therefore aerodynamically dependent. (This applies to road cars too).
2/ F1 is all about cars going as fast as possible, within the constraints of a circuit and with due regard to safety.
3/ It follows that aerodynamics play a significant part in all motor racing.
4/ F1 sits right at the top of motor racing and has to continue to do so to attract the attention which ultimately finances it.
5/ This means F1 cars have to be aerodynamically efficient. AND IN A VERY BIG WAY.
6/ Forcing their way through the same lump of air; the faster they go, the greater the negative effect on overtaking.
7/ The DRS system is a simple bit of ingenuity to offset this (6) - and it works!

My only criticism is that it is being far too tightly managed by forces external to the driver, who I believe should be free to choose where he/she makes use of it, albeit within one second of a car ahead.

 

[Big Ern]

totally agree with what you are saying regarding the aero genjii, i've said it myself many times as a defence of the DRS, which as you say, is just returning to the following driver what should be the advantage of slip-stream. It seems to me that some of the aero on the cars is simply to disturb the air for this very reason. More drag need to be put back on the cars.

I think most of us are in favour of a change to the current DRS rules, I like it, but, as cosi says, it's too tightly controlled by others (after Alonos's opening it should be taken out of outside control.) 2 - 5 mins total usuage at any time, anywhere, during a race would be my personal preference. you may get someone using it all at the start to pull a gap, or someone waiting til the end, it would bring in a bit of that old 80's limit turbo boosting.

 

[genjigonzales]

My only criticism is that it is being far too tightly managed by forces external to the driver, who I believe should be free to choose where he/she makes use of it, albeit within one second of a car ahead.

I think most of us are in favour of a change to the current DRS rules, I like it, but, as cosi says, it's too tightly controlled by others (after Alonos's opening it should be taken out of outside control.) 2 - 5 mins total usuage at any time, anywhere, during a race would be my personal preference. you may get someone using it all at the start to pull a gap, or someone waiting til the end, it would bring in a bit of that old 80's limit turbo boosting.

The restrictions appear to indicate that drivers aren't capable of using it responsibly. I appreciate that any innovation needs to be tested to ensure that the system doesn't compromise safety and that you can't test systems that are race-specific except in a race. Similar innovations, however, such as Ferrari's F-duct, are not subjected to the same controls and yet are potentially far more risky.