Article: No to racism in F1? But ok for prejudice in F1? | Formula One

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Is there German prejudice towards Sebastian?

  • Yes

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Silver - 'Lewis is a cheater close to Schumacher,'
I find this the most ridiculous assertion I've read about Hamilton - and I'm not really a fan of his.
Your numerous entries here do not do you any favours. I hope you reconsider the strength of feeling which will only create division where it is not necessary.
Both Vettel and Hamilton bring extreme skills to our beloved sport. Nobody appears to have brought up the extreme support over the years from the tifosi?
I've witnessed silly clapping and waving for any prancing horse however poorly performing coming round, but absolute silence for winning drivers who have performed wonderfully.....
 
cosicave said:
Several people have made reference to booing at Silverstone.

I will readily admit that it is likely I have been in the wrong place at the right time but in spite of written reports as seen on these pages, I have never witnessed it. Please don't let a tiny minority (if there is one at all) put you off. It is usually a fabulous experience.
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same I get regular abuse when I blow my vu vu zela when Alonso drives past. But I find it funny
 
Bergkamp a Dutch master said:
Silver - 'Lewis is a cheater close to Schumacher,'
I find this the most ridiculous assertion I've read about Hamilton - and I'm not really a fan of his.
Your numerous entries here do not do you any favours. I hope you reconsider the strength of feeling which will only create division where it is not necessary.
Both Vettel and Hamilton bring extreme skills to our beloved sport. Nobody appears to have brought up the extreme support over the years from the tifosi?
I've witnessed silly clapping and waving for any prancing horse however poorly performing coming round, but absolute silence for winning drivers who have performed wonderfully.....
Click to expand...

It's a matter of opinion on how you see cheating, no doubt about talent on Lewis though I never bought it up.

This isn't meant to be a flame post on Lewis, I'm just making a point that a stereotypical German is viewed as being a person who will stop at nothing to win, aka Schumacher, unlike Lewis who has brushed many times with the stewards and isn't even considered because of his nationality.

He hasn't tried to clatter people off but he has taken things too far and deserved the punishment for them, yet the typical "British fair play" makes him immune to cheating in the public/media eye.

People in Britain called foul when Seb got the wing a Silverstone, but yet they said nothing when Lewis was slowing down before the SC came out screwing with Alonso's race. Seb gets labeled a bully and unsportsmanlike and Lewis is just considered as making a mistake as he would never do such a thing.
 
So we've not had any racing for a few weeks, Hamilton hasn't had the opportunity to make front page news with any fau'pars, so lets find another stick to beat him with?

You may have had a remotely valid discussion if it wasn't laced with Hamilton references and accusations of cheating on his part. It comes across in my view as just needing any excuse to take a pop at him. I find it really odd that people that are obviously not Hamilton fans have to look so hard to find a new stick to beat him with once the last stick has been worn down. Are fans of other drivers THAT threatened by him?

There is a long history of rivalry between the English and Germans... Thankfully the vast majority of it is nothing more than friendly rivalry. It can on occasions boil over, for instance the death threats that Damon Hill received at the '94 German Grand Prix where he had to be escorted in and out of the circuit. Thankfully, those are few and far between.

There's a difference between historic rivalry and hatred. If the British were turning up dressed in Nazi uniforms or flying the Swastika then you could compare that to the "blacking up" of a minority of Spanish fans.

One other point when discussing the behavior of British fans is to remember that there's more than one British driver out there and not all British fans support Hamilton. How about some objectivity when discussing Hamilton, rather than the same old bullshit being banded about, time after time?
 
SilverArrow said:
It's a matter of opinion on how you see cheating, no doubt about talent on Lewis though I never bought it up.

This isn't meant to be a flame post on Lewis, I'm just making a point that a stereotypical German is viewed as being a person who will stop at nothing to win, aka Schumacher, unlike Lewis who has brushed many times with the stewards and isn't even considered because of his nationality.

He hasn't tried to clatter people off but he has taken things too far and deserved the punishment for them, yet the typical "British fair play" makes him immune to cheating in the public/media eye.

People in Britain called foul when Seb got the wing a Silverstone, but yet they said nothing when Lewis was slowing down before the SC came out screwing with Alonso's race. Seb gets labeled a bully and unsportsmanlike and Lewis is just considered as making a mistake as he would never do such a thing.
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I think that you seem a bit eager to take a nationalistic view of individual personalities Silver. So far as I am aware, Vettel is very popular in the UK, but Horner, Makeschits and Marko haven't helped his popularity. And I think much of Webber's support has come about as a result of this, regardless of his nationality.
 
cosicave said:

I think that you seem a bit eager to take a nationalistic view of individual personalities Silver. So far as I am aware, Vettel is very popular in the UK, but Horner, Makeschits and Marko haven't helped his popularity. And I think much of Webber's support has come about as a result of this, regardless of his nationality.
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Surely the british public should be against Webber? You know how big the sporting rivalry is between us and australia.
 
SgtBhaji said:
So we've not had any racing for a few weeks, Hamilton hasn't had the opportunity to make front page news with any fau'pars, so lets find another stick to beat him with?

You may have had a remotely valid discussion if it wasn't laced with Hamilton references and accusations of cheating on his part. It comes across in my view as just needing any excuse to take a pop at him. I find it really odd that people that are obviously not Hamilton fans have to look so hard to find a new stick to beat him with once the last stick has been worn down. Are fans of other drivers THAT threatened by him?

There is a long history of rivalry between the English and Germans... Thankfully the vast majority of it is nothing more than friendly rivalry. It can on occasions boil over, for instance the death threats that Damon Hill received at the '94 German Grand Prix where he had to be escorted in and out of the circuit. Thankfully, those are few and far between.

There's a difference between historic rivalry and hatred. If the British were turning up dressed in Nazi uniforms or flying the Swastika then you could compare that to the "blacking up" of a minority of Spanish fans.

One other point when discussing the behavior of British fans is to remember that there's more than one British driver out there and not all British fans support Hamilton. How about some objectivity when discussing Hamilton, rather than the same old bullshit being banded about, time after time?
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This isn't about Lewis, this is asking the question if the British F1 public are still prejudice to the German drivers, most likely Schumacher and Seb for being the top tier. I'm just making points why Lewis' antics arn't seen in the same eye as Schumachers. Lewis is a fine example, (not because he's Lewis and a easy target), because I don't see Di Resta or Jenson going to the stewards room at half the GP's every year.

If you read my previous posts you would see that I was also making a comparison that the British crowd overreact when something involves sebastian, like "wing-gate" last year. There was so much complaining with accusations that Seb pulled a Schumacher and instigated the whole thing and poor, poor Webber was the modern day Rubens. The same thing applies this year with him being the "official number 1" in RBR so they thought up that Webber isn't allowed to fight him on equal ground.

It's been prooven many times in the past with the stewards that Lewis has cheated or if you prefer "pushed his luck" far more often than Seb has ever done, but the prejudice of the public makes Lewis a saint but Seb the enemy and thats the problem. Again so much talk about Schumacher in the past with the British media, but not a whisper about Lewis' stunts, prejudice for you. British drivers can do no wrong as it seems, always a mistake and the stewards are just picking on him. But when Seb sneezes on Mark by accident, it's an evil plot to get Webber out of the way for number 1 status.

How many F1 fans at Silverstone for the past 2-3 years have said out in the open they hate him for being German, can't just be 1 or 2... more like a few thousands. They do it in football and the scum do it in F1 now, booing first, what next? Booing him on the podium....oh wait that already happend this year...

Seems "baby schumi" is getting more stick than the real one ever did in his career.

So it's ok to have "friendly rivalry" with nations, but when it's "friendly rivalry" with a different creed it's considered wrong and it shouldn't be done? You can't have one and just ignore the other, sorry but I made my point and I'm getting bored talking about it. I just find it wrong because they're is obvious prejudice against many nations in this country and germany is the main one. When somebody from our country gets booed, it's considered they're the problem and it has to be changed, yet when "we" do it, it's now "friendly rivalry".
 
cosicave said:

I rest my case. We are talking of individuals and most followers of motor racing are concerned with the person rather than where he (or she) comes from.
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Well if thats the case, the public should be against webber for being a moaning hypocrite.
 
Prejudice is what makes F1 "F1".

Without it most of the viewers would not be supporting the teams and drivers they are.. it's competition rather than prejudice..
"Which driver from this nation is faster than this driver from this nation?" No harm in this debate.
Drivers are going to be favoured in their own country.. that's the whole point in a worldwide competition that is Formula 1.
 
Last comment from me here:

MannyF1MSC said:
Prejudice is what makes F1 "F1".

Without it most of the viewers would not be supporting the teams and drivers they are.. it's competition rather than prejudice..
"Which driver from this nation is faster than this driver from this nation?" No harm in this debate.
Drivers are going to be favoured in their own country.. that's the whole point in a worldwide competition that is Formula 1.
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You support Schumacher, so did I in the past before he retired the first time. Did anybody ask you: "Why do you support him? he's German..."
I've been asked that by F1 fans new and old, in the past, present and most likely the future with Vettel. They don't say it when I bring up Kobayashi or Perez. Maybe because I live in in area full of pikies and you dont hear it, but that is a sign of prejudice 101.



I've made my point, let the thread die please so we can enjoy this weekend
 
Cowboys From Hell said:
Well if thats the case, the public should be against webber for being a moaning hypocrite.
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Well, perhaps one of the great things about the people of the UK is that we have a large range of different views, as well as having the facility to express them. Oddly enough, in terms of 'freedom of speech', the Germans (and the Ozzies) both have a far better system than ours!
 
SilverArrow said:
Last comment from me here:



You support Schumacher, so did I in the past before he retired the first time. Did anybody ask you: "Why do you support him? he's German..."
I've been asked that by F1 fans new and old, in the past, present and most likely the future with Vettel. They don't say it when I bring up Kobayashi or Perez. Maybe because I live in in area full of pikies and you dont hear it, but that is a sign of prejudice 101.



I've made my point, let the thread die please so we can enjoy this weekend
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I support him because I feel more in common with him, his struggles and his former glory days, and what he now has to do to prove he can still cut it, when he has good races such as Canada you feel exactly the same he would under his helmet. That is the best thing about supporting a non-title contender, because the unexpected can suddenly occur.
 
SilverArrow said:
This isn't about Lewis, this is asking the question if the British F1 public are still prejudice to the German drivers, most likely Schumacher and Seb for being the top tier. I'm just making points why Lewis' antics arn't seen in the same eye as Schumachers. Lewis is a fine example, (not because he's Lewis and a easy target), because I don't see Di Resta or Jenson going to the stewards room at half the GP's every year.

If you read my previous posts you would see that I was also making a comparison that the British crowd overreact when something involves sebastian, like "wing-gate" last year. There was so much complaining with accusations that Seb pulled a Schumacher and instigated the whole thing and poor, poor Webber was the modern day Rubens. The same thing applies this year with him being the "official number 1" in RBR so they thought up that Webber isn't allowed to fight him on equal ground.

It's been prooven many times in the past with the stewards that Lewis has cheated or if you prefer "pushed his luck" far more often than Seb has ever done, but the prejudice of the public makes Lewis a saint but Seb the enemy and thats the problem. Again so much talk about Schumacher in the past with the British media, but not a whisper about Lewis' stunts, prejudice for you. British drivers can do no wrong as it seems, always a mistake and the stewards are just picking on him. But when Seb sneezes on Mark by accident, it's an evil plot to get Webber out of the way for number 1 status.

How many F1 fans at Silverstone for the past 2-3 years have said out in the open they hate him for being German, can't just be 1 or 2... more like a few thousands. They do it in football and the scum do it in F1 now, booing first, what next? Booing him on the podium....oh wait that already happend this year...

Seems "baby schumi" is getting more stick than the real one ever did in his career.

So it's ok to have "friendly rivalry" with nations, but when it's "friendly rivalry" with a different creed it's considered wrong and it shouldn't be done? You can't have one and just ignore the other, sorry but I made my point and I'm getting bored talking about it. I just find it wrong because they're is obvious prejudice against many nations in this country and germany is the main one. When somebody from our country gets booed, it's considered they're the problem and it has to be changed, yet when "we" do it, it's now "friendly rivalry".
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I really do not recall any incidents of people saying that they hate Vettel for simply being German, and if there are those people that think that way (Which I'm sure there are) they are a very small, under educated minority and are not indicative of the British attitudes to Germans. I'm pretty sure that there would be a similar minority of Germans have a hate of British just for being British.

As for the British supporters thinking that no wrong can be done by British drivers... I would argue that Britain is probably more critical of it's drivers than most nations. In my personal opinion, we've under-valued all of our divers in one way or another since Hunt and we seem much more open to following drivers of other nationalities and objective enough to acknowledge their abilities. Lewis is far from being thought of as a saint by fans and media alike. Any indiscretion and he is hauled over the coals
(rightly or wrongly) quicker than you can say "How many seconds did Seb win by?" so that point is both invalid and has no relevance.

As for the "Friendly Rivalries" and are they okay... Yes, of course they are. It's okay to poke fun and banter so long as it's not taken to the point of hate. That's when it become more sinister. If there was a percentage of British fans goose stepping and waving Swastikas then you have a problem, just in the same way as people blacking up and parading around in a blatant attempt to be offensive towards a person that's part black is a problem. That is hate and not a rivalry. There is a distinction.

Drivers get booed. Hamilton as had his fair share as have many other drives. and don't think that this is a new thing.

I'm sorry... but your points came across as nothing but veiled digs at Hamilton.
 
The worst case of being an ... is on youtube, the id name is ****macher, and I have never witnessed such gross, racist, vile hatred against one person just because Michael Schumacher is a fantastic German racing driver.
Every driver should be given the same respect, they drive to entertain us, if you want to dig people for reasons other than their race craft or for personal reasons, they should have their eyes gauged out, the race driver victimised because of it should be invited to give them a good kick to the head.
 
MannyF1MSC said:
The worst case of being an ... is on youtube, the id name is ****macher, and I have never witnessed such gross, racist, vile hatred against one person just because Michael Schumacher is a fantastic German racing driver.
Every driver should be given the same respect, they drive to entertain us, if you want to dig people for reasons other than their race craft or for personal reasons, they should have their eyes gauged out, the race driver victimised because of it should be invited to give them a good kick to the head.
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Is this thread in danger of going too far? I think Silver's point has been exhausted and at least some of the 'hatred' being spoken of is a reaction to inflammatory comments such as giving graphic descriptions of what should happen to people who criticize their heroes.

You'd recently got better than this Manny.
 
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