Arteta Out Thread.

[BrunelGunner]

Nketiah is turning 23 this month and although that is still young, he’s also not a kid. I’m not convinced he’s going to be much more than what he is now.

If he was happy to be a squad player and be a impact sub/fill in when needed/play in cup games, then I don’t mind keeping him on a low wage.

But I suspect, at his age, he wants to be playing first-team football regularly and I don’t blame him.

We’ve offered him two contracts already, which he’s rejected, and now we’ve offered him a third - which he’s deliberating over.

IMO if we all know what’s best for each party, he moves on and we look at buying two first-team strikers (with different profiles) with a view to integrate Balogun depending on if we feel he’s ready.

 

[BrunelGunner]

Well, I don’t think he’ll be going anywhere just yet…

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[PINKIE]

Well, I don’t think he’ll be going anywhere just yet…

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Pleased to hear that. The right decision for the club.

 

[cini65]

Pleased to hear that. The right decision for the club.

Could get fruit if we capitulate and finish 6th. Odd one to get this signed and sealed just a few matches before season end. I know EUropa would only have been the aim anyway, but if now DON'T get 4th the season will end on a sour note.

 

[PINKIE]

Could get fruit if we capitulate and finish 6th. Odd one to get this signed and sealed just a few matches before season end. I know EUropa would only have been the aim anyway, but if now DON'T get 4th the season will end on a sour note.

Yeah missing out on 4th would be a disappointing end to the season now, but Europa league would still be a decent achievement given where we finished last season.

Regardless of this though, I think the club are making it clear they are backing Arteta and his team. Edu has apparently already been working on our summer signings, so this contract extension makes sense for the stability of the club going forward.

 

[TheBear]

I don't like it honestly.

They should have rewarded him with a new deal AFTER he secures Champions League football. If we **** this up by loosing our next two games - would he still be deserving of this deal?

 

[BrunelGunner]

I don't like it honestly.

They should have rewarded him with a new deal AFTER he secures Champions League football. If we **** this up by loosing our next two games - would he still be deserving of this deal?

I'm not saying it's right, but I think it's safe to say that the club's objective this season was to get back into Europe and he's already achieved that with 4 games to spare. Now granted, so far all we have guaranteed is Europa League, not Champions League, but I don't think the club expected Champions League this season.

It also suggests that they've seen enough thus far to believe in Arteta irrespective of where we finish at this point. They trust his 'process' above results.

I personally would have preferred if we'd waited, but I knew for a while they had no intention of letting him go. So this comes as no surprise to me.

 

[TheBear]

I'm not saying it's right, but I think it's safe to say that the club's objective this season was to get back into Europe and he's already achieved that with 4 games to spare. Now granted, so far all we have guaranteed is Europa League, not Champions League, but I don't think the club expected Champions League this season.

It also suggests that they've seen enough thus far to believe in Arteta irrespective of where we finish at this point. They trust his 'process' above results.

I personally would have preferred if we'd waited, but I knew for a while they had no intention of letting him go. So this comes as no surprise to me.

Yeah the thing that worries me is those capitulations that we still have. We lost those first three games of the Season and that was written off as a blip due to squad depth then the same thing happens again 9 months later in exactly the same way(against weaker sides no less) almost ruining the long ruin of good form we had just achieved.

But still he's a young manager, still learning his trade - there's massive potential there for sure. Lets see what he can do with another Summer transfer window.

 

[PINKIE]

Yeah the thing that worries me is those capitulations that we still have. We lost those first three games of the Season and that was written off as a blip due to squad depth then the same thing happens again 9 months later in exactly the same way(against weaker sides no less) almost ruining the long ruin of good form we had just achieved.

But still he's a young manager, still learning his trade - there's massive potential there for sure. Lets see what he can do with another Summer transfer window.

There are going to be ups and downs along the way. That's going to happen whoever is in charge

We've got the right man for where we are atm and we're moving in the right direction.

 

[white_gunner]

honest question for people who believe in Arteta and 'the process'

at what point would you abandon the process? honest question. If, for example he finishes outside the top 4 next season and doesnt get CL again, would you still be for 'giving him time'? At that point he would have already been here almost 4 years.

but I want to know what the expiration date on Arteta is - at what point would people want a new manager?

 

[white_gunner]

Culture shift, Player recruitment 'revolution', how one carries oneself is all well and good...

...but sooner or later all managers are judged on results. If Arteta is here 6 years and hasnt taken us to CL but weve got "a winning mentality" etc I dont think very many people would accept that.

 

[PINKIE]

honest question for people who believe in Arteta and 'the process'

at what point would you abandon the process? honest question. If, for example he finishes outside the top 4 next season and doesnt get CL again, would you still be for 'giving him time'? At that point he would have already been here almost 4 years.

but I want to know what the expiration date on Arteta is - at what point would people want a new manager?

I'd put myself in that camp

And I would say that next season is crunch time, Top 4 is the target and getting back in the CL. If we don't do that, then it's time to think again

 

[BrunelGunner]

I wasn’t too keen on Arteta being given the contract when he was, but now he’s been given it, and is reportedly going to be backed with another £150m - £200m this Summer, he simply has to show a larger scale of improvement next season.

If he can’t get CL next season, either through the league or Europa League, we shouldn’t keep him on.

I know we say this every year, but this transfer window is huge. If we get it wrong, and don’t improve, then we are at risk of losing our star players.

It’s going to be 6 years without CL football. I think a lot of us took it for granted and always assumed we’d be in there. Maybe the ownership had the same mindset and got complacent. Next season, it’s going to be harder for us to overcome these hurdles.

 

[PINKIE]

I wasn’t too keen on Arteta being given the contract when he was, but now he’s been given it, and is reportedly going to be backed with another £150m - £200m this Summer, he simply has to show a larger scale of improvement next season.

If he can’t get CL next season, either through the league or Europa League, we shouldn’t keep him on.

I know we say this every year, but this transfer window is huge. If we get it wrong, and don’t improve, then we are at risk of losing our star players.

It’s going to be 6 years without CL football. I think a lot of us took it for granted and always assumed we’d be in there. Maybe the ownership had the same mindset and got complacent. Next season, it’s going to be harder for us to overcome these hurdles.

Remember the days on here when people were complaining about Wenger 'only' getting top 4 ?

 

[TheBear]

He has to get top 3-4 next Season - and we have to see a clear improvement in play style.

The question mark here is that.. The signings he has made: White, Ramesdale, Odegaard and Tomiyasu have all been great(I rate them all), so can he continue to build a better team?

If the players he brings in don't improve things.. then he has to go basically.

 

[BrunelGunner]

Remember the days on here when people were complaining about Wenger 'only' getting top 4 ?

I think a lot of the complaints people had with Wenger were valid and ultimately, the complacency by the club is what allowed us to descend into being a Europa League outfit. However, I also didn’t think we’d have been this bad after he left. I would never have envisaged us finishing 8th twice for example.

I still maintain he should have gone earlier than he did, but I didn’t expect the club to make as many poor decisions as they have done post-Wenger.

If Arteta’s managerial stint ends in failure, I really do worry about where we go from there.

 

[cini65]

Coming 8th last season gave him a slight freebie this year as he could show objective improvement without getting CL by finishing 5th, 6th or 7th.

Next year, the only way to show improvement is to get in the CL. Whether that's top 4 or coming 5th/6th and winning Europa I don't think anyone would be that fussed about (both have pros and cons).

If we finish outside top 4 and don't make a good Europa showing then he's got to go.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

I'm not saying it's right, but I think it's safe to say that the club's objective this season was to get back into Europe and he's already achieved that with 4 games to spare. Now granted, so far all we have guaranteed is Europa League, not Champions League, but I don't think the club expected Champions League this season.

I find this argument opens up a can of worms. It's one thing setting an objective at the start of a season. It's another thing entirely ignoring the changing facts on the ground and sticking to that objective as the season progresses.

FWIW, I will say that I think Arteta is improving you. The concern is he isn't doing it quickly enough. I emphasise that point because two things have happened since his goals were first set way back in August:
1) The Newcastle takeover.
2) The arrival of Conte at Spurs.

These two developments are massive in the broader argument of Arsenal's hopes of finishing in the top 4 next season. Newcastle will spend huge money to reel you (and us) in. We have the gravitas of Conte's name plus (hopefully) CL money to launch our own bid for the top 4 (although knowing us we'll lose to Norwich).

Once the reality on the ground changes, the goals have to as well. That's why whereas most Spurs fans would've been more than happy finishing 5th this season, once Conte was brought in, United's collapse became clear and Newcastle's ambition began to show, it became imperative that we secure CL football next season and without question if we screw it up on Sunday, fans will be seething.

This lack of adapting to the changing reality is precisely what overshadowed Wenger's final years and tbh the decision to award Arteta a new contract when you did hints that it hasn't gone away. True, 5th is technically "progress". But when you then factor into the equation the turmoil at Spurs and United, the takeover at Newcastle, your lack of cup football for almost 4 months - none of which could have possibly been known variables back in August when 5/6th was set as the objective; it isn't really much progress at all.

It was the same lack of ruthless ambition that led to your Jan window being such a disaster too. The club couldn't see 4th being a reality, so didn't invest to make it a reality.

For all the many mistakes he has made, Levy for once did the right thing, sacked a bang average manager, appointed a top class one, backed him in both directions (he was uncharacteristically generous in letting Conte kick unwanted players out), and at least made an effort to secure 4th, which I sincerely hope we now do or this post will be bookmarked by your entire forum

I'm sorry, but looking in from the outside, I just don't get it.

 

[cini65]

I find this argument opens up a can of worms. It's one thing setting an objective at the start of a season. It's another thing entirely ignoring the changing facts on the ground and sticking to that objective as the season progresses.

FWIW, I will say that I think Arteta is improving you. The concern is he isn't doing it quickly enough. I emphasise that point because two things have happened since his goals were first set way back in August:
1) The Newcastle takeover.
2) The arrival of Conte at Spurs.

These two developments are massive in the broader argument of Arsenal's hopes of finishing in the top 4 next season. Newcastle will spend huge money to reel you (and us) in. We have the gravitas of Conte's name plus (hopefully) CL money to launch our own bid for the top 4 (although knowing us we'll lose to Norwich).

Once the reality on the ground changes, the goals have to as well. That's why whereas most Spurs fans would've been more than happy finishing 5th this season, once Conte was brought in, United's collapse became clear and Newcastle's ambition began to show, it became imperative that we secure CL football next season and without question if we screw it up on Sunday, fans will be seething.

This lack of adapting to the changing reality is precisely what overshadowed Wenger's final years and tbh the decision to award Arteta a new contract when you did hints that it hasn't gone away. True, 5th is technically "progress". But when you then factor into the equation the turmoil at Spurs and United, the takeover at Newcastle, your lack of cup football for almost 4 months - none of which could have possibly been known variables back in August when 5/6th was set as the objective; it isn't really much progress at all.

It was the same lack of ruthless ambition that led to your Jan window being such a disaster too. The club couldn't see 4th being a reality, so didn't invest to make it a reality.

For all the many mistakes he has made, Levy for once did the right thing, sacked a bang average manager, appointed a top class one, backed him in both directions (he was uncharacteristically generous in letting Conte kick unwanted players out), and at least made an effort to secure 4th, which I sincerely hope we now do or this post will be bookmarked by your entire forum

I'm sorry, but looking in from the outside, I just don't get it.

Newcastle I get the fear with, but even then they still only have Howe in charge and they're not suddenly going to be buying XI new first-teamers and becoming City overnight. Took City a few years. But yes, in five years I expect City and Newcastle to be the top 2 every year. Liverpool depends how long Klopp hangs around for. Eventually I imagine they'll get sucked back to the levels of United, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal. I also think you might be slightly overstating the possible impact of Conte but you're a Spurs fan so that's understandable. You remain a team who win games based on the attacking prowess of two players which isn't sustainable long-term as they're both late 20s now. Let's see how long Conte hangs around for and how he builds your team. I'm not sure you can play 10 men behind the ball against every good team and counter forever really can you? Conte couldn't even get CL in his second season with Chelsea and they had a far better team and available funds than you will ever have. I certainly don't think he's anywhere near Klopp and Pep. Next rung down at least.

The whole OTT argument of 'this season was Arsenal's chance because everyone else was poor' blah blah blah. Every season teams over-perform and under-perform. Every season since Ferguson left, United spend a load of money and then the argument is 'well no-one will catch them now' and yet half the time they're still bang average. Chelsea have their own problems to try and solve and are losing half their defence and have a striker who is struggling. The only two definites are that Liverpool and City are going to be top 4 next year, and probably the top 2. Beyond that I could easily see any combo of United, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea finishing 3rd to 6th.

That doesn't stop the fact that this season has ended up disappointingly for us given the way results, or more importantly, the **** performances, have fallen. But we also don't know what has happened behind closed doors so there are possible situations which might have explained having a thin squad and January's odd window. However, there is absolutely no excuse next season not to have a squad big enough to cope with Europa and a top 4 challenge. He'll have gotten rid of all the players he's deemed toxic that he didn't sign. And if anymore toxic relationships appear then he's been there long enough now to sort of think that he then might be the case of the toxicity so that's no longer an excuse at all. He'll have spent loads and will continue to spend even more this Summer so the players will be 'his'. The tactics will be his. If we don't qualify for the CL (either top 4 or a Europa win) next year then the Emirates will be Wenger-levels of toxic.

 

[white_gunner]

Honestly I believe if we had got in a world class manager after we sacked Emery, we also could have gotten Champion League football by now.

A lot has been made about how our squad was **** when arteta came in, but the truth is, we just had really unmotivated players who were yet still unmotivated by arteta. I think a proper manager a la conte could have taken us forward from there.