Argies...tension

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Uni_Mackem_UOA said:
One more thing to add from me.

At the time of the Falklands war, Argentina were a Military Junta.

Now they are a democratic nation.

Democratic peace theory would suggest that it is very unlikely that war (in the conventional sense) would break out between the two nations.

(Im using far more of what I learned in lectures on this thread than I have ever used in an exam. Which is scary)
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Two democratic countries have never gone to war with each other so it would be very strange if the Argies did try it. Our allies (the yanks) would be treaty bound to help us out so I am sure it would never come to that.

They have no claim on the Islands whatsoever. The French were the first to colonise it, it never had a permament population of native people.
We took it off the French in one of our many wars and all of this is well before the country of Argentina even existed.
Just more political sabre rattling from their President to deflect against their own internal problems, tried and tested really for many countries, if you want a bit of popularity have a go at the British
 
would like to get acouple of things off my chest - on this subject.

I have no disrespectful things to say of the people of the falklands and certainly only respect and admiration for all members of the armed forces that did their duty and followed orders.

What has boiled my p*ss for the last 30 years is the government of the day that caused the death of so many on both sides - in the cause of hypocritical selfish political ends. you see I am old enough to remember Mrs Thatcher (the devil incarnate - with tits) sending to the F. I.'s a minister - I think it may have been Sir Nicholas Ridley to beg and i mean beg and cajole the islanders to throw in their lot with Argentina. As was reported at the time on tv Panorama. I clearly remember the minister so p*ssed off with the local oiks he was nearly in tears with frustration that they wish to stay tied to the UK.

Less than two years later the most disliked of British prime ministers - looking squarely at defeat in the next election - goes gung ho for confrontation. Our staunch ally, the USA calls for serious arbitration talks in washington. During the night the talks are are scuppered when the order was given from westminster to sink the Belgrano - thus creating that war and of course we British all pull together. The b*tch is re-elected on a wave of political euphoria and goes on to wreck so many working class/labour areas with her spite. eg shipbuilding and coal - and all bought with the lives and injuries to those ever so brave and loyal serving people of our armed forces. It is my belief that if that blatant act of aggression had occurred today there would calls from all corners of the world to indict Mrs Thatcher for this war crime.

There thats off my chest and I feel better.
 
safc-noggieland said:
would like to get acouple of things off my chest - on this subject.

I have no disrespectful things to say of the people of the falklands and certainly only respect and admiration for all members of the armed forces that did their duty and followed orders.

What has boiled my p*ss for the last 30 years is the government of the day that caused the death of so many on both sides - in the cause of hypocritical selfish political ends. you see I am old enough to remember Mrs Thatcher (the devil incarnate - with tits) sending to the F. I.'s a minister - I think it may have been Sir Nicholas Ridley to beg and i mean beg and cajole the islanders to throw in their lot with Argentina. As was reported at the time on tv Panorama. I clearly remember the minister so p*ssed off with the local oiks he was nearly in tears with frustration that they wish to stay tied to the UK.

Less than two years later the most disliked of British prime ministers - looking squarely at defeat in the next election - goes gung ho for confrontation. Our staunch ally, the USA calls for serious arbitration talks in washington. During the night the talks are are scuppered when the order was given from westminster to sink the Belgrano - thus creating that war and of course we British all pull together. The b*tch is re-elected on a wave of political euphoria and goes on to wreck so many working class/labour areas with her spite. eg shipbuilding and coal - and all bought with the lives and injuries to those ever so brave and loyal serving people of our armed forces. It is my belief that if that blatant act of aggression had occurred today there would calls from all corners of the world to indict Mrs Thatcher for this war crime.

There thats off my chest and I feel better.
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sounds like that has been festering for 30 years
 
safc-noggieland said:
would like to get acouple of things off my chest - on this subject.

I have no disrespectful things to say of the people of the falklands and certainly only respect and admiration for all members of the armed forces that did their duty and followed orders.

What has boiled my p*ss for the last 30 years is the government of the day that caused the death of so many on both sides - in the cause of hypocritical selfish political ends. you see I am old enough to remember Mrs Thatcher (the devil incarnate - with tits) sending to the F. I.'s a minister - I think it may have been Sir Nicholas Ridley to beg and i mean beg and cajole the islanders to throw in their lot with Argentina. As was reported at the time on tv Panorama. I clearly remember the minister so p*ssed off with the local oiks he was nearly in tears with frustration that they wish to stay tied to the UK.

Less than two years later the most disliked of British prime ministers - looking squarely at defeat in the next election - goes gung ho for confrontation. Our staunch ally, the USA calls for serious arbitration talks in washington. During the night the talks are are scuppered when the order was given from westminster to sink the Belgrano - thus creating that war and of course we British all pull together. The b*tch is re-elected on a wave of political euphoria and goes on to wreck so many working class/labour areas with her spite. eg shipbuilding and coal - and all bought with the lives and injuries to those ever so brave and loyal serving people of our armed forces. It is my belief that if that blatant act of aggression had occurred today there would calls from all corners of the world to indict Mrs Thatcher for this war crime.

There thats off my chest and I feel better.
Click to expand...

Agree with most mate, I wouldn't vote Conservative for anything.
But War Crimes?
Nah part of our territory had been invaded, to not do anything under those circumstances would send out the wrong message to the world.IMHO.
And I have already said we could have made the islanders millionaires and gave them their choice from there.
 
It's not the Argies we need to worry about. Beware our "friend" who calls the islands the Malvinas and who likes oil. Obama is a false friend who is just as likely to send in the Screaming Eagles to end the dispute and reap the rewards of the oil for the USA.
 
As mentioned earlier the Falkland has supposedly huge reserves of oil but it's difficult to drill due to deep water. A small company called Falkland oil & gas is due to drill in June provided they can secure some funds, potentially their share price could rocket..... Might be worth a punt if you have some spare green.
 
the govermant will be stuck if argentina to invade...

1. they give it to them with out a fight... outcry in england because of all the deaths in the first war ect...

2. they put up a weak fight... because of cuts they lose with a large amount of death... out cry back home for lack of resources

3. they put up a fight they spend all the money on it...out cry back home when taxs go up to fund it ect...
 
I may well be wrong here but during the Falklands war I don't think the Ham Shanks even broke off diplomatic relations with Argentina.

What I do know for sure is that "our greatest ally" were the biggest funders of the IRA.

America has never done anything for anyone unless it benefits them. They held us to ransome in WW2 in loans & selling us warships that were headed for the breakers yard, a bill we only paid off in 2009.

I have nowt against the average Yank but have hated their successive governments including the present one. They treat us as some 51st state bull terrier that they have at their beck & call when things they kick off get out of hand. They have to be the ****ing glory boys, RE. Tora Bora.

Some of the most undisciplined soldiers I've ever had the misfortune to work with were theirs. I don't trust the ****s one iota.
 
I despise Thatcher with a passion anbd remember how the maimed and wounded were excluded from the victory parade.

It was shear dumb luck on her part that more ships were not decomisioned before the Argies invaded - something which quietly continued under her government afterwards and every government since. Until the new CVF Royal Navy aircraft carriers enter service (2016 and 2018) we have no possibility of preventing a determined attempt to invade and make no bones, democracy or not this would be hugely popular with the Argentinian public. I'm actually quite worried that they might try something;

* Anniversary coming up

* Would have a lot of popular support

* There is a window of a few years now where UK fleet is incapable of intervening effectivly

* UK ground forces are already over committed

* OIL. OIL. OIL.

Lot of Myths have grown up around who supported who 30 years ago... Yanks tried to get a political solution to accomodate everyone but allowed us everything from access to their intelligence to bases to refuel from... I'm not lover of the Yanks but their support was 80/20 to the UK in practical terms.

As for the French supplying exocete missiles - I think the UK is far from being angels where supplying weaponry to various Juntas throughout the world... not to mention it was a British company suppying the Argie military and police with crocodile clips to a very specific design favoured by torturers.
 
I say **** the argies. They blew their rights when they invaded. Say what you like about Mrs Thatch, at least she knew what to do. Michael Foot would've screwed it right up and let them dig in before he did anything.

As for calling their season after the Belgrano, we could call 2012/13 the Dirty Cheating Drug-taking Handball Merchant Season in honour of Maradona's exploits in the '86 World Cup...
 
safc-noggieland said:
would like to get acouple of things off my chest - on this subject.

I have no disrespectful things to say of the people of the falklands and certainly only respect and admiration for all members of the armed forces that did their duty and followed orders.

What has boiled my p*ss for the last 30 years is the government of the day that caused the death of so many on both sides - in the cause of hypocritical selfish political ends. you see I am old enough to remember Mrs Thatcher (the devil incarnate - with tits) sending to the F. I.'s a minister - I think it may have been Sir Nicholas Ridley to beg and i mean beg and cajole the islanders to throw in their lot with Argentina. As was reported at the time on tv Panorama. I clearly remember the minister so p*ssed off with the local oiks he was nearly in tears with frustration that they wish to stay tied to the UK.

Less than two years later the most disliked of British prime ministers - looking squarely at defeat in the next election - goes gung ho for confrontation. Our staunch ally, the USA calls for serious arbitration talks in washington. During the night the talks are are scuppered when the order was given from westminster to sink the Belgrano - thus creating that war and of course we British all pull together. The b*tch is re-elected on a wave of political euphoria and goes on to wreck so many working class/labour areas with her spite. eg shipbuilding and coal - and all bought with the lives and injuries to those ever so brave and loyal serving people of our armed forces. It is my belief that if that blatant act of aggression had occurred today there would calls from all corners of the world to indict Mrs Thatcher for this war crime.

There thats off my chest and I feel better.
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Maybe not war crimes though I'd like to see her charged with crimes against her own people. I was in junior school during the strikes and on food runs with my grandad helping folks out. I remember visiting one house with a kid my age who's father had Hung himself a couple of weeks earlier. Found out years later the guys suicide note said he blamed himself for Putting his family into poverty going on strike. This sticks with me to this day as does my hatred for thatcher and her clone Cameron.

Another point on the falklands is I believe its the most southerly port that does not freeze over and will no doubt be the extremely valuable gateway to Antarcticas oil fields when the oil companys undoubtedly gain access to them.
 
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Dauntless will set sail for the Falkland Islands in the coming weeks armed with a battery of missiles that could "take out all of South America's fighter aircraft let alone Argentina's," according to one Navy source.

The Type 45 destroyer is the most advanced anti-aircraft and anti-ballistic ship in the world equipped with 48 Sea Viper missiles and the Sampson radar, which is more advanced than Heathrow air traffic control

The ship is in a league of its own in air defence able to track dozens of multiple targets

"It can shoot down Argentine fighters as soon as they take off from they bases," said another Navy source. "This will give Buenos Aires serious pause for thought."
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Argentina have 4 destroyers/frigates, which were built 1981-1984 and 3 hunter killer diesel engine subs and a few corvettes that keep the coast clear.

We have 24 Destroyers/Frigates, 12 subs most nuclear, 1 Aircraft carrier and 2 assault ships.

as well as better technology on all of them.

personally, i dont think we have that much to worry about, unless all of South Amerca help them, but even then....
 
I've little doubt that the Yanks would somehow get involved this time.

They weren't bothered in '82 when all that was on offer were a few sheep and load of penguins, but now there might be oil at stake and that changes
things greatly.
 
A lot of people don't know the Yanks had a War Plan RED, as in the colour in the 1930s.

Have a guess who against?





Yup Great Britain, Canada and her dominions. It really pissed the Canucks off in the 70s when it was declassified.

As one of the main parts of the plan was a Blitzkrieg into Canada.
 
safc-noggieland said:
would like to get acouple of things off my chest - on this subject.

I have no disrespectful things to say of the people of the falklands and certainly only respect and admiration for all members of the armed forces that did their duty and followed orders.

What has boiled my p*ss for the last 30 years is the government of the day that caused the death of so many on both sides - in the cause of hypocritical selfish political ends. you see I am old enough to remember Mrs Thatcher (the devil incarnate - with tits) sending to the F. I.'s a minister - I think it may have been Sir Nicholas Ridley to beg and i mean beg and cajole the islanders to throw in their lot with Argentina. As was reported at the time on tv Panorama. I clearly remember the minister so p*ssed off with the local oiks he was nearly in tears with frustration that they wish to stay tied to the UK.

Less than two years later the most disliked of British prime ministers - looking squarely at defeat in the next election - goes gung ho for confrontation. Our staunch ally, the USA calls for serious arbitration talks in washington. During the night the talks are are scuppered when the order was given from westminster to sink the Belgrano - thus creating that war and of course we British all pull together. The b*tch is re-elected on a wave of political euphoria and goes on to wreck so many working class/labour areas with her spite. eg shipbuilding and coal - and all bought with the lives and injuries to those ever so brave and loyal serving people of our armed forces. It is my belief that if that blatant act of aggression had occurred today there would calls from all corners of the world to indict Mrs Thatcher for this war crime.

There thats off my chest and I feel better.
Click to expand...


Absolute bollocks to say the sinking of the Belgrano caused the conflict. Lets not try to distort facts cause you didn't like Thatcher, who by the way did more for our armed forces than any other PM in my time.
On the Belgrano thing I've heard it all before. "It was outside the exclusion zone, it was heading the wrong way" So what. That ship was the best bit of kit they had. While it was at sea it was a direct threat to our lads, sinking it was the only option.
The only people who should be doing time for war crimes are the Argies for sending barely trained conscripts up against the British Army.
 
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