They had the better car in qualifying at Malaysia, Monaco, Hungary, Japan and Abu Dhabi
are we at last in the presence of real greatness with vettel ?
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They had the better car in qualifying at Malaysia, Monaco, Hungary, Japan and Abu Dhabi
Whichever car is the fastest, Vettel has something Button and Hamilton don't: his team is focused entirely on making him champion; McLaren back both drivers. I know it's obvious but I think it's important to remember this.
what has that got to do with anything ---
you see how pointless it is trying to compare cars that have been so evenly matched all season , clearly the mclaren and red bull have been the class of the field all season long , trying to compare them is a fruitless task --
Well Webber has had a rubbish season and Button has only really been a tenth or so behind Hamilton in quali this season and yet Webber usually starts infront of him. I have seen no evidence that supports your view that the Mclaren has been as quick as the Red Bull.
It wouldn't matter who his team mate was this season, he would've beaten them, be it Hamilton, Button, Alonso et al, he has destroyed the competition, humiliated his team mate almost every race in a way I can't remember seeing in the years I've watched F1, not even Schumcher with all his team orders dominated a team-mate as much. Hamilton says 'they have something extra in qualifying' yes, his name is Sebastian Vettel. He says in qualifying you all pull down your pants to see whos is the biggest, well just call him Donkey Vettel if that's the case. As David Coulthard mentioned the dominance of the Red Bull isn't anywhere near as dominant as the McLarens/Williams/Ferraris of the Senna/Mansell/Schumacher eras, who got poles and laps far quicker than anyone else on the grid other than their team-mates.
He's the real deal, anyone who doesn't see that, well, the word 'nationalistic' springs to mind.
He's the real deal, anyone who doesn't see that, well, the word 'nationalistic' springs to mind.
Nationalism or xenophobia is a cheap shot and bollocks, frankly. He's had one phenomenal season, truly phenomenal. The signs are that he will be a great but it's way too early to assume this now. It's based on a presumption that his future seasons will be equally dominant. If you have a crystal ball, let's have a look
why do I have to look in the future when I can already see his history which quite clearly shows he is a great driver, as for nationalism, if the cap fits...........
If the Red Bull and McLaren have been the class of the field then surely Alonso has done the best job
Hard to tell, but Vettel has had the better season imo. No mistakes except one. (Canada) never finished below 4th and properly dominated his team mate. (15-3(?) in qualifying, 16-2 in race)
Alonso has done well in the inferior car, but the start of the season was poor.
We're too quick with the accolades and the superlatives, unless we are talking of this season in isolation. When we speak of the greats it's about a place in F1 history; applying it to someone so early in his career is inappropriate, IMO. Vettel has done very well so far but he has also had it very easy. How will he cope when he has to struggle? We don't know. There are areas of his race craft which remain unproven for many people, not just myself. The media want hype and superlatives and it's very easy to get carried away with their spin.
And yes, Miggins, nationalism is a cheap shot which might fit a few but for most will be way wide of the mark. Is it because he is German? Don't make me laugh!
And yes, Miggins, nationalism is a cheap shot which might fit a few but for most will be way wide of the mark. Is it because he is German? Don't make me laugh!
as i said when the two teams have been the class of the field all season long and 3 of the 4 drivers have been relatively evenely matched it is just about impossible trying to determine who actually has been the best team --
We all have differing opinions on the cars, that much is clear. I strongly believe that Red Bull has been the faster car for 80%+ of the races this season, but that takes nothing away from Vettel. he has had a almost flawless season and no one on the grid could have done a better job. Fastest car and he made it work, what more can he do 
He won in a midfield car when he was how old? he's beaten every team-mate he's had in F1, this season he's destroyed his team-mate whilst clinching how many records? And this in a car no where near as dominant as the McLarens, Ferrari's, Williams, Lotus of yesteryear. I think you've seen far too many war films and the constant repetition of antiGerman sentiment has clouded your judgment.
I don't think he's a great. There are at least four or five drivers all about the same level, if not a great deal more. It's so typical of people to proclaim whoever is driving the fastest car to be the best, but a great? Come off it.
no one is yet saying he is a great , but at 24 yrs of age he is only going to improve his game on every level as he gets older --
the significant point is i dont believe the red bull has not been a completly dominant machine this year in the way that some of schumachers cars were or for that matter many of nigel mansells cars were , you only have to look closely at webbers performance throut the season to realise that ,
in fact i can see similarities with this season with the red bull that i saw in 07 and 08 with the relatively evenly matched mclaren and ferrari machines -
not saying vettel is going to be a great , but at such a young age with the intelligence he has shown and undoubtably because of his very young age he will continue to become smarter and improve his technique there is a possibility he may aspire to that very elite group as the yrs roll by --
Really?
OK, I'll say it: Vettel is great.
(And for that matter, so are a few other drivers currently on the grid)
Job done. Now, I feel much better…
let me guess you cc you believe all of the current british drivers are on the same level as prost , senna ,clark or fangio -
dont make me laugh , it will give me indigestion whilst i am eating my dinner ---
we have probally got a bit more mileage to ekk out of this one yet dennis - you have never told anybody who your prefered driver is or was --
fill us in and we can rip him to shreds ( only joking with you dennis )