Off Topic And Now for Something Completely Different

[Stockholm Tiger]

I'm not proposing anything. The guy behind arresting 12,000 people a year for non-crime tweets is. That and his other history should be a big enough red flag.

Beyond that, can I suggest that as you admit you don't know what is proposed, you have a look at what is proposed. Don't just grab a few headlines, do a deep dive and you will soon see that what you have (voluntarily and not universally) is a fraction of what is proposed here.

The previous, much lighter scheme was an absolute mess of IT and data base leaks and **** ups, never mind wide open to official abuse if 'they' don't like your legal views or actions.

They claims they make as justification for bringing it in are patent and obvious bollocks, which is just one of many red flags.

I won't "deep dive" or read more as it won't effect me in the slightest as I dont live in the UK. All I'm saying is the digital ids and id cards are great. I'll leave it there.

Some people just love to oppose anything new/different.

One of the things I hate about Sweden is we have very little CCT coverage. You have ****s loads in the UK and that is excellent for catching low level criminals.

 

[DMD]

I won't "deep dive" or read more as it won't effect me in the slightest as I dont live in the UK. All I'm saying is the digital ids and id cards are great. I'll leave it there.

Some people just love to oppose anything new/different.

One of the things I hate about Sweden is we have very little CCT coverage. You have ****s loads in the UK and that is excellent for catching low level criminals.

You have said you have no idea what the proposed scheme is, nor any intention of checking. I checked, and the Swedish scheme you seem to like, is nothing like the one proposed in the UK, which kind of negates your points.

Despite the numbers of cameras, crime is on a huge upward tick in the UK. That scheme doesn't work either.

HTH

 

[balkan tiger]

We already have a national insurance number card.

Does it have your picture on it?

 

[Stockholm Tiger]

You have said you have no idea what the proposed scheme is, nor any intention of checking. I checked, and the Swedish scheme you seem to like, is nothing like the one proposed in the UK, which kind of negates your points.

Despite the numbers of cameras, crime is on a huge upward tick in the UK. That scheme doesn't work either.

HTH

I've never said I had any interest in your proposed scheme have I? I just absolutely love ours. My "points" relate to my life not yours.

Crime may be increasing in the UK but mass cctv only helps to catch those perpetuating the crimes doesn't it?

Or do you have evidence that cctv is leading to less convictions?

Or do you think cctv in uk cites is causing more crimes?

 

[dennisboothstash]

You have said you have no idea what the proposed scheme is, nor any intention of checking. I checked, and the Swedish scheme you seem to like, is nothing like the one proposed in the UK, which kind of negates your points.

Despite the numbers of cameras, crime is on a huge upward tick in the UK. That scheme doesn't work either.

HTH

I agree with most of your points on this, but I thought the trend in crime in the UK was going down, not up?

 

[DMD]

I agree with most of your points on this, but I thought the trend in crime in the UK was going down, not up?

There are a number of reports suggesting that more and more crime now goes unreported.

In the year to September 2024, approximately 6.2% of crimes in England and Wales resulted in a charge or summons, while the total proportion "brought to justice" was around 10.1%. These figures show a historical decline, with the charge/summons rate for all offenses dropping significantly from a high of around 16% in the year ending March 2015.

The crime rate for England and Wales was 87.2 per 1,000 people in 2024/25, an increase from 85.7 per 1,000 in the previous year. Certain types of crime, such as violence against the person and sexual offences, have increased significantly, while others, like theft, have declined overall but seen spikes in specific areas such as shoplifting.

Recent Trends (2023-2025)

• Increasing Fraud & Computer Misuse:
  The latest Office for National Statistics (ONS) data shows a significant increase in fraud, particularly fraud involving advance fees and unauthorized access to personal information.
• Rising Theft & Robbery:
  The CSEW also indicates a recent increase in theft and robbery.
• Fluctuating Violence:
  While violent crime figures from the CSEW show a long-term decrease, there are specific exceptions in the latest reporting periods. For example, robbery and violence with injury have shown recent increases in England and Wales.
• Shoplifting:
  Police-recorded figures have also shown a record high in shoplifting offences in the year to June 2024.

 

[DMD]

I've never said I had any interest in your proposed scheme have I? I just absolutely love ours. My "points" relate to my life not yours.

Crime may be increasing in the UK but mass cctv only helps to catch those perpetuating the crimes doesn't it?

Or do you have evidence that cctv is leading to less convictions?

Or do you think cctv in uk cites is causing more crimes?

Not that this has anything to do with digital ID, but see above for a few stats and keep in mind a lot of crimes go unreported, as people lack confidence in Policing.

I never said you had an 'interest' in the UK scheme, but the conversation relates to the UK scheme, not the very different Swedish one.

 

[DMD]

That increase in digital crime should be yet another red flag against the proposed scheme. Also, it's misleading to call it ID, as what's proposed is far more than just that.

Just to add, does this look like it indicates a fall in crime rates, especially given around 94% of those they hear about don't get to Court? And think about how long the grooming abuse has continued, and how few of those brought to justice yet.

Crown court backlog in England and Wales hits new record of almost 80,000 cases. The crown court backlog in England and Wales has risen by 10% to a new record of almost 80,000 cases, while wait times for trial dates have reached up to four years.

Figures from the Ministry of Justice showed the open caseload was 78,329 at the end of June, up 2% from 76,957 at the end of March, the first time the backlog passed 75,000. It is also up 10% from 70,893 a year earlier, the figures show.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2025/sep/25/crown-court-england-wales-law-justice-politics#:~:text=The crown court backlog in,reached up to four years.

 

[Christophalophados]

That increase in digital crime should be yet another red flag against the proposed scheme. Also, it's misleading to call it ID, as what's proposed is far more than just that.

Just to add, does this look like it indicates a fall in crime rates, especially given around 94% of those they hear about don't get to Court? And think about how long the grooming abuse has continued, and how few of those brought to justice yet.

Crown court backlog in England and Wales hits new record of almost 80,000 cases. The crown court backlog in England and Wales has risen by 10% to a new record of almost 80,000 cases, while wait times for trial dates have reached up to four years.

Figures from the Ministry of Justice showed the open caseload was 78,329 at the end of June, up 2% from 76,957 at the end of March, the first time the backlog passed 75,000. It is also up 10% from 70,893 a year earlier, the figures show.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2025/sep/25/crown-court-england-wales-law-justice-politics#:~:text=The crown court backlog in,reached up to four years.

A increasing backlog in dealing with cases isn't necessarily driven by an increase in crime though, as that link states that there are double-digit increases in the number of crimes being taken to court for drugs, violence and sexual crimes, and this certainly isn't a bad thing.

Also, there's a link to a seperate article talking about the state of the courts, and many of them have been left to rot for years, which contributes to adjournments and delays. https://www.theguardian.com/law/202...ety-survey-dire-state-of-courts-england-wales

The main problem though, is that the service just hasn't had the ability to catch up since COVID.

 

[DMD]

A increasing backlog in dealing with cases isn't necessarily driven by an increase in crime though, as that link states that there are double-digit increases in the number of crimes being taken to court for drugs, violence and sexual crimes, and this certainly isn't a bad thing.

Also, there's a link to a seperate article talking about the state of the courts, and many of them have been left to rot for years, which contributes to adjournments and delays. https://www.theguardian.com/law/202...ety-survey-dire-state-of-courts-england-wales

The main problem though, is that the service just hasn't had the ability to catch up since COVID.

Perhaps, but even if true, that changes nothing in what I posted, nor does it support digital ID.

 

[Christophalophados]

Perhaps, but even if true, that changes nothing in what I posted, nor does it support digital ID.

No, I agree, and the pertinent stats for that one is the increase in fraud, although there has been a significant reduction in incidents of unauthorised access to personal information, but having everyone's complete data in one basket could be catastrophic if that got hacked.

 

[Trumpton Tiger.]

Does it have your picture on it?

My passport does. If this is such a wizard idea from labour then why didn't they mention it their manifesto, or even last week? Its a deflection tactic and a gimmick.

 

[springtiger]

So the rise in crime has nothing to do with the growth in population of the last 10-15 years, measured managed or unfettered ?
I support global ID in some aspects but the big brother approach by this govt added to this is very worrying . I believe the innocent will yet again be those most infringed upon whilst those it should be intended to ‘catch’ will escape its clutches .

 

[Heimdallr]

No, I agree, and the pertinent stats for that one is the increase in fraud, although there has been a significant reduction in incidents of unauthorised access to personal information, but having everyone's complete data in one basket could be catastrophic if that got hacked.

I don't know about the proposed UK scheme, so not suggesting it's a good idea. But the scandinavian system is that you have a personal number with your age/address/tax details and this is to a certain extent publicly available in most, not all, cases. Then linked to this number, you get a digital fingerprint that is unique to this personal number.. and then by using the two together, can identify yourself to sign agreements, log into bank accounts etc. To my knowledge, this system hasn't been hacked. However, this is different to a photographic id card, which also exist linked to the personal number, but these are not obligatory for me.

As an aside, I doubt this will ever happen in the UK.. way too high population and costs involved.. plus the millions of unregistered and homeless ppl, plus those born abroad and living abroad.. it is easy with a country like Estonia, the UK is a whole different ball game.

 

[Phinius T Bookbinder]

It’s like most things… people want things changing but so it affects other people and not them.

 

[Christophalophados]

So the rise in crime has nothing to do with the growth in population of the last 10-15 years, measured managed or unfettered ?
I support global ID in some aspects but the big brother approach by this govt added to this is very worrying . I believe the innocent will yet again be those most infringed upon whilst those it should be intended to ‘catch’ will escape its clutches .

The figures DMD quoted were per capita, so no, although it will account for higher numbers in total. As will plenty of other factors, such as the fact they've essentially decriminalised petty shoplifting

 

[Chazz Rheinhold]

The figures DMD quoted were per capita, so no, although it will account for higher numbers in total. As will plenty of other factors, such as the fact they've essentially decriminalised petty shoplifting

About time too

 

[Christophalophados]

I don't know about the proposed UK scheme, so not suggesting it's a good idea. But the scandinavian system is that you have a personal number with your age/address/tax details and this is to a certain extent publicly available in most, not all, cases. Then linked to this number, you get a digital fingerprint that is unique to this personal number.. and then by using the two together, can identify yourself to sign agreements, log into bank accounts etc. To my knowledge, this system hasn't been hacked. However, this is different to a photographic id card, which also exist linked to the personal number, but these are not obligatory for me.

As an aside, I doubt this will ever happen in the UK.. way too high population and costs involved.. plus the millions of unregistered and homeless ppl, plus those born abroad and living abroad.. it is easy with a country like Estonia, the UK is a whole different ball game.

I'm actually not averse to the idea in theory, but I just know how we operate things in the country nowadays. It will end up making track and trace look like an unqualified success.

 

[Ernie Shackleton]

So this ID digital Britcard is in addition to the current 5 ID methods you either are allocated at birth, can apply and pay for or are awarded for demonstrating competency, all of which are held digitally, yes? It won’t replace them.

As there will be no cost to the recipient, funding will not be sufficient enough to ensure that high levels of security are met and maintained.

The fact you will need to use it to gain employment will result in further embedding of the black jobs market as those unable to access an ID card will have no legal option if they want or need to work.

It will be open to massive fraud and illegal activity.

It cannot address the issue of people being in the country without entering through official channels (however you choose to frame that).

It will make it easier for the Government to harass its citizens however.

If that’s what we want then we should go ahead.

If we would rather stick with the perfectly adequate methods of identification we currently have, then perhaps we should spend the money we are about to waste on this nonsense, fighting the crimes that are apparently the only reason we need to go down this route in the first place.

 

[Plum]

So this ID digital Britcard is in addition to the current 5 ID methods you either are allocated at birth, can apply and pay for or are awarded for demonstrating competency, all of which are held digitally, yes? It won’t replace them.

As there will be no cost to the recipient, funding will not be sufficient enough to ensure that high levels of security are met and maintained.

The fact you will need to use it to gain employment will result in further embedding of the black jobs market as those unable to access an ID card will have no legal option if they want or need to work.

It will be open to massive fraud and illegal activity.

It cannot address the issue of people being in the country without entering through official channels (however you choose to frame that).

It will make it easier for the Government to harass its citizens however.

If that’s what we want then we should go ahead.

If we would rather stick with the perfectly adequate methods of identification we currently have, then perhaps we should spend the money we are about to waste on this nonsense, fighting the crimes that are apparently the only reason we need to go down this route in the first place.

But are they adequate?

Someone entitled to live/work here might not have anything allocated to them at birth, they will not be able apply for a UK passport if they have settlement, and although they may have a NI number there is no link of that to a photograph. Not sure what the 'demonstrating competency' bit means, if it's eg a driving licence then that isn't particularly adequate either.

Personally I'm on the fence still about ID cards.