Allam out

originallambrettaman said:
I'm misinforming no-one, we owe our owner £66m, he says that will rise another £11m in the current financial year and he's not putting any more money in.

Those are the facts, as stated by our owner, I'm just repeating them, they're not an opinion.
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Fair enough, maybe I was out of order there, I'll take that back lad.

I know you're incredibly passionate about the name change issue & are doing your level best to try & stop it, but I fear it'll prove to be in vain.

If that's how it pans out, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, would be my advice, keep a sense of perspective, as I don't remember a better time at Hull in the 20 odd years I've had a passing interest in them. It's not all bad mate, make sure you enjoy it!
 
originallambrettaman said:
The losses are cumulative, it's our total debt that's now £66m.

Other than the Huddlestone transfer, all our purchases were before the end of our financial year and before the Premier League money, hence the increases in debt in this years accounts.

The losses are ongoing and our owner expects another £11m shortfall in the current financial year.

I'm not sure why you're arguing the toss, this stuff is all in the public domain, having been announced by the club last week.
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He is right to a certain extent though, the figures don't seem to quite add up for the current season to result in a £11m loss. *** packet calculation but;

£60m tv money less £39m wages, £12m on transfers. Leaves a profit of £9m. Now I appreciate there will be other costs, but I've not included othe income either (ticket sales, mechandise etc). So to get us to an £11m loss, there would have to be another £19m net expenditure, seems a lot?
 
mgt said:
He is right to a certain extent though, the figures don't seem to quite add up for the current season to result in a £11m loss. *** packet calculation but;

£60m tv money less £39m wages, £12m on transfers. Leaves a profit of £9m. Now I appreciate there will be other costs, but I've not included othe income either (ticket sales, mechandise etc). So to get us to an £11m loss, there would have to be another £19m net expenditure, seems a lot?
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It's AA's number rather than mine and it does include the January transfer money, but it's still dependant on where we finish and who we get rid of in January.
 
Tobes said:
Fair enough, maybe I was out of order there, I'll take that back lad.

I know you're incredibly passionate about the name change issue & are doing your level best to try & stop it, but I fear it'll prove to be in vain.

If that's how it pans out, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, would be my advice, keep a sense of perspective, as I don't remember a better time at Hull in the 20 odd years I've had a passing interest in them. It's not all bad mate, make sure you enjoy it!
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No problem.

You may be right, it may be in vain, but I'm not going to stop trying(even though I am fully aware that the next owner will immediately change it back again).
 
originallambrettaman said:
No problem.

You may be right, it may be in vain, but I'm not going to stop trying(even though I am fully aware that the next owner will immediately change it back again).
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Probably!

The next owner could be Vincent Tan... Or someone of his ilk... In that case I wouldn't expect him to do anything less than finish the job and call us the KL Tigers or Malaysian Tigers.
 
mgt said:
He is right to a certain extent though, the figures don't seem to quite add up for the current season to result in a £11m loss. *** packet calculation but;

£60m tv money less £39m wages, £12m on transfers. Leaves a profit of £9m. Now I appreciate there will be other costs, but I've not included othe income either (ticket sales, mechandise etc). So to get us to an £11m loss, there would have to be another £19m net expenditure, seems a lot?
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Until the full accounts are posted at companies house we won't know.

I too am a little sceptical of the projected loss when you consider the huge increase in turnover - unless AA is planning on repaying a
chunk of his loan back from the TV money.
 
originallambrettaman said:
No problem.

You may be right, it may be in vain, but I'm not going to stop trying(even though I am fully aware that the next owner will immediately change it back again).
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Immediately? Surely you mean after following due process and having it approved by the FA for the following season??
 
Everyone is selling their sole for the premier league.

Firstly I keep hearing how grateful I should be for AA saving our club and how he did it out of the kindness of his heart. That's all very well and good and it's a nice picture he gets to paint of himself and go round reminding everyone what a philanthropic man he is. He wasn't forced to buy the club, we keep hearing how we were on the edge of administration etc... but who really knows, and how do we know that we wouldn't have had someone else come in to rescue us I doubt that we would have every really been close to extinction, maybe we may have gone into administration but such is football, it wouldn't have been the end of Hull City A.F.C.

So we now have an owner who seems to believe that because he is pumping as much money as he likes into the club he can do as he wishes to try and make himself a bit more money and pay the debt back to himself. This is nonsense, it's like allowing the shareholders to make all the decisions in an organisation it's short term minded and dangerous for the longevity of the club.

The Man does not understand football, he does not understand the customer. I don't care how good of a business man he is in other areas he is clearly not doing very well at the moment, I don't care if you agree with the name change or not what is undoubted is that his communication with some fans is very poor (be them a minority of 2000 or the majority - That's another debate). He is Alienating fans.


I do a 500 mile round trip every other weeks to go watch Hull City A.F.C and regularly attend away games and quite frankly I am beginning to question if this pursuit of premier league football is worth it. We are selling our soul for the premier league and I am starting to shift towards the opinion that this Club would be better off without AA. Does that mean we will be higher in the league? Maybe not but my desire to drive 500 miles every other weekend to support something which I am feeling more and more alienated by each week is diminishing.

So ask yourself this, in 10 years time when he has likely gone would you regret not questioning the decisions of a man who clearly doesn't understand your club.
 
Beverley_Tiger_998 said:
Everyone is selling their sole for the premier league.

Firstly I keep hearing how grateful I should be for AA saving our club and how he did it out of the kindness of his heart. That's all very well and good and it's a nice picture he gets to paint of himself and go round reminding everyone what a philanthropic man he is. He wasn't forced to buy the club, we keep hearing how we were on the edge of administration etc... but who really knows, and how do we know that we wouldn't have had someone else come in to rescue us I doubt that we would have every really been close to extinction, maybe we may have gone into administration but such is football, it wouldn't have been the end of Hull City A.F.C.

So we now have an owner who seems to believe that because he is pumping as much money as he likes into the club he can do as he wishes to try and make himself a bit more money and pay the debt back to himself. This is nonsense, it's like allowing the shareholders to make all the decisions in an organisation it's short term minded and dangerous for the longevity of the club.

The Man does not understand football, he does not understand the customer. I don't care how good of a business man he is in other areas he is clearly not doing very well at the moment, I don't care if you agree with the name change or not what is undoubted is that his communication with some fans is very poor (be them a minority of 2000 or the majority - That's another debate). He is Alienating fans.


I do a 500 mile round trip every other weeks to go watch Hull City A.F.C and regularly attend away games and quite frankly I am beginning to question if this pursuit of premier league football is worth it. We are selling our soul for the premier league and I am starting to shift towards the opinion that this Club would be better off without AA. Does that mean we will be higher in the league? Maybe not but my desire to drive 500 miles every other weekend to support something which I am feeling more and more alienated by each week is diminishing.

So ask yourself this, in 10 years time when he has likely gone would you regret not questioning the decisions of a man who clearly doesn't understand your club.
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There wasn't anybody looking to come in as far as I'm aware, if Allam hadn't saved us, we'd have been triple fried ****ed. We certainly wouldn't be here in the PL. And as for all this 'selling our soul business'; it's a league. It's not about being all shiny and new and Sky Sports like, it's about winning games, same as every other league. It's where every club, fan and footballer want to see their club progress to. Perhaps it's typical of our club to have so many fans who claim to miss 'going darn Torquay on Choosdee nart'. Yeah? Well those days are over for now. We're playing at the top level and that in itself deserves recognition. Too many fans look at the history we've made, but ignore the history we're making.
 
Tobes said:
Your annual losses are not the same as your balance sheet debt.

The majority of the debt is owed to Allam, it's not got a fixed repayment date, so it's therefore a total irrelevance to your current trading figures.

The current financial year won't see the TV revenue drop into the accounts, as the bulk will be received in 2014.

Your looking to mis-inform people imo, I've come across your sort at my own club, you're trying to make out the picture is bleak as it suits your agenda.
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It will since football clubs generally have their year end at the end of July so that each set of accounts refers to a season rather than the tax year.

Chilton's Hundreds said:
Until the full accounts are posted at companies house we won't know.

I too am a little sceptical of the projected loss when you consider the huge increase in turnover - unless AA is planning on repaying a
chunk of his loan back from the TV money.
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Definitely not that. The £11M is money he's going to have to put in, so unless it's going to need him to put in £16M for him to repay himself £5M it just wouldn't work.

It'll more likely be rebranding costs <whistle>
 
Beverley_Tiger_998 said:
Everyone is selling their sole for the premier league.

Firstly I keep hearing how grateful I should be for AA saving our club and how he did it out of the kindness of his heart. That's all very well and good and it's a nice picture he gets to paint of himself and go round reminding everyone what a philanthropic man he is. He wasn't forced to buy the club, we keep hearing how we were on the edge of administration etc... but who really knows, and how do we know that we wouldn't have had someone else come in to rescue us I doubt that we would have every really been close to extinction, maybe we may have gone into administration but such is football, it wouldn't have been the end of Hull City A.F.C.

So we now have an owner who seems to believe that because he is pumping as much money as he likes into the club he can do as he wishes to try and make himself a bit more money and pay the debt back to himself. This is nonsense, it's like allowing the shareholders to make all the decisions in an organisation it's short term minded and dangerous for the longevity of the club.

The Man does not understand football, he does not understand the customer. I don't care how good of a business man he is in other areas he is clearly not doing very well at the moment, I don't care if you agree with the name change or not what is undoubted is that his communication with some fans is very poor (be them a minority of 2000 or the majority - That's another debate). He is Alienating fans.


I do a 500 mile round trip every other weeks to go watch Hull City A.F.C and regularly attend away games and quite frankly I am beginning to question if this pursuit of premier league football is worth it. We are selling our soul for the premier league and I am starting to shift towards the opinion that this Club would be better off without AA. Does that mean we will be higher in the league? Maybe not but my desire to drive 500 miles every other weekend to support something which I am feeling more and more alienated by each week is diminishing.

So ask yourself this, in 10 years time when he has likely gone would you regret not questioning the decisions of a man who clearly doesn't understand your club.
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Brilliant post
 
mgt said:
He is right to a certain extent though, the figures don't seem to quite add up for the current season to result in a £11m loss. *** packet calculation but;

£60m tv money less £39m wages, £12m on transfers. Leaves a profit of £9m. Now I appreciate there will be other costs, but I've not included othe income either (ticket sales, mechandise etc). So to get us to an £11m loss, there would have to be another £19m net expenditure, seems a lot?
Click to expand...

You need to add £4.5 million in interest payments to MR Allam, Non playing staff wages (£39 million is playing/managerial only), costs to use the KC (rent to SMC, Policing Costs, Stewarding Costs etc), and a big bill to HMRC each year, Costs of training ground
 
NorthFerribyTiger said:
Do you think in 2-3 years ? Seriously ? You think we will have paid the Allams back their £70 million or however much that has increased to ?
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You're thinking of being debt free, rather than self sustaining. So long as our income is enough to cover all our costs and the interest payments on our debts we'd be self sustaining.

In terms of how long it would take to do it, if they chose to it would be no longer than the lengths of the current players' contracts. Let them all expire and leave on a free (or sell them off in advance) and replace them with low paid players. They'll obviously be crap players, but so long as after relegation there was enough left after expenses to pay the interest it'd be done. They obviously wouldn't do it that way as the club is worth much more as a PL side than a Championship/L1 side, but in principle they could.
 
NorthFerribyTiger said:
You need to add £4.5 million in interest payments to MR Allam, Non playing staff wages (£39 million is playing/managerial only), costs to use the KC (rent to SMC, Policing Costs, Stewarding Costs etc), and a big bill to HMRC each year, Costs of training ground
Click to expand...

There won't be much to HMRC to include. VAT is dealt with outside the main accounts, National Insurance etc will be included under the wages section, and Corporation Tax is only paid on the profits.
 
Beverley_Tiger_998 said:
Everyone is selling their sole for the premier league.

Firstly I keep hearing how grateful I should be for AA saving our club and how he did it out of the kindness of his heart. That's all very well and good and it's a nice picture he gets to paint of himself and go round reminding everyone what a philanthropic man he is. He wasn't forced to buy the club, we keep hearing how we were on the edge of administration etc... but who really knows, and how do we know that we wouldn't have had someone else come in to rescue us I doubt that we would have every really been close to extinction, maybe we may have gone into administration but such is football, it wouldn't have been the end of Hull City A.F.C.

So we now have an owner who seems to believe that because he is pumping as much money as he likes into the club he can do as he wishes to try and make himself a bit more money and pay the debt back to himself. This is nonsense, it's like allowing the shareholders to make all the decisions in an organisation it's short term minded and dangerous for the longevity of the club.

The Man does not understand football, he does not understand the customer. I don't care how good of a business man he is in other areas he is clearly not doing very well at the moment, I don't care if you agree with the name change or not what is undoubted is that his communication with some fans is very poor (be them a minority of 2000 or the majority - That's another debate). He is Alienating fans.


I do a 500 mile round trip every other weeks to go watch Hull City A.F.C and regularly attend away games and quite frankly I am beginning to question if this pursuit of premier league football is worth it. We are selling our soul for the premier league and I am starting to shift towards the opinion that this Club would be better off without AA. Does that mean we will be higher in the league? Maybe not but my desire to drive 500 miles every other weekend to support something which I am feeling more and more alienated by each week is diminishing.

So ask yourself this, in 10 years time when he has likely gone would you regret not questioning the decisions of a man who clearly doesn't understand your club.
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Great post !!

I was talking to a City fan at the Sunderland game (I don't think he uses this messageboard) & he travels back from France every home game & pretty much echoed your views.

He's on a 12 month contract out there & it must be costing thousands to come home to watch City play, but he was saying that even if he's back in the UK next season he seriously doubts that after all that has happened he will be renewing his pass, oh & where he is nobody has heard of Hull Tigers, as far as the people who have heard of us know we are Hull City
 
Tommytiger said:
There wasn't anybody looking to come in as far as I'm aware, if Allam hadn't saved us, we'd have been triple fried ****ed. We certainly wouldn't be here in the PL. And as for all this 'selling our soul business'; it's a league. It's not about being all shiny and new and Sky Sports like, it's about winning games, same as every other league. It's where every club, fan and footballer want to see their club progress to. Perhaps it's typical of our club to have so many fans who claim to miss 'going darn Torquay on Choosdee nart'. Yeah? Well those days are over for now. We're playing at the top level and that in itself deserves recognition. Too many fans look at the history we've made, but ignore the history we're making.
Click to expand...

We should not forget who we are and where we came from, Success bought is not as enjoyable as success earned out of graft and determination.
 
Beverley_Tiger_998 said:
Everyone is selling their sole for the premier league.

Firstly I keep hearing how grateful I should be for AA saving our club and how he did it out of the kindness of his heart. That's all very well and good and it's a nice picture he gets to paint of himself and go round reminding everyone what a philanthropic man he is. He wasn't forced to buy the club, we keep hearing how we were on the edge of administration etc... but who really knows, and how do we know that we wouldn't have had someone else come in to rescue us I doubt that we would have every really been close to extinction, maybe we may have gone into administration but such is football, it wouldn't have been the end of Hull City A.F.C.

So we now have an owner who seems to believe that because he is pumping as much money as he likes into the club he can do as he wishes to try and make himself a bit more money and pay the debt back to himself. This is nonsense, it's like allowing the shareholders to make all the decisions in an organisation it's short term minded and dangerous for the longevity of the club.

The Man does not understand football, he does not understand the customer. I don't care how good of a business man he is in other areas he is clearly not doing very well at the moment, I don't care if you agree with the name change or not what is undoubted is that his communication with some fans is very poor (be them a minority of 2000 or the majority - That's another debate). He is Alienating fans.


I do a 500 mile round trip every other weeks to go watch Hull City A.F.C and regularly attend away games and quite frankly I am beginning to question if this pursuit of premier league football is worth it. We are selling our soul for the premier league and I am starting to shift towards the opinion that this Club would be better off without AA. Does that mean we will be higher in the league? Maybe not but my desire to drive 500 miles every other weekend to support something which I am feeling more and more alienated by each week is diminishing.

So ask yourself this, in 10 years time when he has likely gone would you regret not questioning the decisions of a man who clearly doesn't understand your club.
Click to expand...


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