agnostics??

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Okay since you wanted this to be a serious debate here are a few serious questions thefanwithnoname.

First of all on the subject of god..If god wanted strict obedience to his laws why did he create the possibility of those laws being violated, people will claim free-choice but this makes the "ultimate being god" a hypocrite you have free choice but you can only follow my rules, seems something a man or a media attention whore celebrity would say.. Why does god suffer from insecurity?

I think most people accept now that the concept of religon is now just used for power and ways to sepearate ourselves from each other, when it is meant to do the opposite...

As for the possibilty that it must be God that made us as its impossible for us to be alive otherwise, then you have no perspective... The universe has being going on for longer then we can ever imagine, we are merely flash in the pan of all eternity, in this all infinity where trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions of chemical reactions occur it is inevitable that life would form... it has done and will do so again!
 
The Situation said:
Okay since you wanted this to be a serious debate here are a few serious questions thefanwithnoname.

First of all on the subject of god..If god wanted strict obedience to his laws why did he create the possibility of those laws being violated, people will claim free-choice but this makes the "ultimate being god" a hypocrite you have free choice but you can only follow my rules, seems something a man or a media attention celebrity would say.. Why does god suffer from insecurity?

I think most people accept now that the concept of religon is now just used for power and ways to sepearate ourselves from each other, when it is meant to do the opposite...
Click to expand...

This.
 
The Situation said:
Okay since you wanted this to be a serious debate here are a few serious questions thefanwithnoname.

First of all on the subject of god..If god wanted strict obedience to his laws why did he create the possibility of those laws being violated, people will claim free-choice but this makes the "ultimate being god" a hypocrite you have free choice but you can only follow my rules, seems something a man or a media attention celebrity would say.. Why does god suffer from insecurity?

I think most people accept now that the concept of religon is now just used for power and ways to sepearate ourselves from each other, when it is meant to do the opposite...

As for the possibilty that it must be God that made us as its impossible for us to be alive otherwise, then you have no perspective... The universe has being going on for more then we can ever imagine, we are merely flash in the pan of all infinity, in this all infinity where trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions of chemical reactions occur it is inevitable that life would form... it has done and will do so again!
Click to expand...

Its a big topic in all honesty and har to express on a forum, especially as others will come into the debate and you end up all over the shop. and also as i feel the starting point is important. take any topic out of context and it becomes hypothetical. eg if you dont believe in a creator then how can you believe in his 'laws'

in simple terms there is imo a misunderstanding about the notion of free will and 'divine decree'. In simple terms certain things (life, death, wealth, kids etc) are preordained. however you have choices.

The example is of a man asking another to watch his horse whilst he undertakes a task. He thinks to himself I will give this man £2 for helping me. He comes out to see his horse still there minus the saddle. As he walks he comes to the saddelry and sees his saddle hanging up for sale. He asks the owner how much he paid for it. £2 is the reply. Basically the thief dude was predestined to get £2. He chose to earn it the wrong way.

I think the religion debate is only starting. A lot of it comes down to understanding. eg thelikes of Dawkins would blind most people with science. However they offer nothing if challenged imo

as for the probability and chance thing its something like 10 to the power 10123, so very very unlikely it happened by chance
 
thefanwithnoname said:
The example is of a man asking another to watch his horse whilst he undertakes a task. He thinks to himself I will give this man £2 for helping me. He comes out to see his horse still there minus the saddle. As he walks he comes to the saddelry and sees his saddle hanging up for sale. He asks the owner how much he paid for it. £2 is the reply. Basically the thief dude was predestined to get £2. He chose to earn it the wrong way.
Click to expand...

<laugh> ...classic!
 
thefanwithnoname said:
in simple terms there is imo a misunderstanding about the notion of free will and 'divine decree'. In simple terms certain things (life, death, wealth, kids etc) are preordained. however you have choices.
Click to expand...

What choices do the millions of kids who die because of wretched poverty have to make?
 
thefanwithnoname said:
Its a big topic in all honesty and har to express on a forum, especially as others will come into the debate and you end up all over the shop. and also as i feel the starting point is important. take any topic out of context and it becomes hypothetical. eg if you dont believe in a creator then how can you believe in his 'laws'

in simple terms there is imo a misunderstanding about the notion of free will and 'divine decree'. In simple terms certain things (life, death, wealth, kids etc) are preordained. however you have choices.

The example is of a man asking another to watch his horse whilst he undertakes a task. He thinks to himself I will give this man £2 for helping me. He comes out to see his horse still there minus the saddle. As he walks he comes to the saddelry and sees his saddle hanging up for sale. He asks the owner how much he paid for it. £2 is the reply. Basically the thief dude was predestined to get £2. He chose to earn it the wrong way.

I think the religion debate is only starting. A lot of it comes down to understanding. eg thelikes of Dawkins would blind most people with science. However they offer nothing if challenged imo

as for the probability and chance thing its something like 10 to the power 10123, so very very unlikely it happened by chance
Click to expand...

Yes I agree it is a very vast topic for a forum.

However on the chance and the probability thing, rare things do happen, the very fact you are born is nearly impossible, In each human coupling, a thousand million sperm vie for a single egg. Multiply those odds by countless generations, against the odds of your ancestors being alive, meeting, and then having you, well theres more chance of the air your breathing right now turning into gold, and yet here you are typing away...

Is this only because of some god, well what is god? The fact of the matter is if you truely think about it we are infact god or in other words the universe, we are made up of the same star dust that was present in the big bang, so infact we made ourselves... We eat cows or animals however in 3000 years time when we are dead and decompose and turn into soil we will be eaten by these very animals if not some evolved version..

Every thing is inter-linked there is no sepearate being which created everything, we are part of a system and infact are the system at the same time.. bit of a paradox really.
 
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