The Great Overtaking & Stewarding Debate

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SgtBhaji said:
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I get that safety is a concern, but what the rules are doing is basically restricting how racing is conducted in a formula that's already struggling with overtaking and action.
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Expect less overtaking next year. However, this is perhaps the most forward thinking point to take from recent events.

As I've said elsewhere; under the current rules of engagement, I agree with penalising Rosberg for both the Hamilton and Verstappen incidents – although what I find more difficult is to explain why the penalties were not identical for such similar incidents (one was 10sec whilst the other was 5sec). Despite improvements in stewarding over the years, inconsistencies – real or imagined – are obviously alienating fans, as well as stoking the fires for argument, and F1 needs to get a tighter grip for its own credibility.

The suggestion that the Stewards be the same for every race is reasonable. Surely from a spectating perspective, if we get enough fools willing to put their reputation on the line and take one season at a time (perhaps a new set for each season), it ought to improve credibility?*. It might even be feasible…
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*The problem then becomes whether individual Stewards are self-consistent but such an increase in personal responsibility and a corresponding potential for derision / ridicule would require being very careful indeed.
 
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cosicave said:
*The problem then becomes whether individual Stewards are self-consistent but such an increase in personal responsibility and a corresponding potential for derision / ridicule would require being very careful indeed.
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The nationality of the stewards may also cause fans to call foul if it's perceived they are biased towards their own countrymen.

Also, even if the stewarding is made to be consistent, their decisions will always be questioned by partisan fans and they will always be perceived as being wrong by at least some portion of spectators on every single decision. They're basically referees after all.
 
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SgtBhaji said:
The nationality of the stewards may also cause fans to call foul if it's perceived they are biased towards their own countrymen.

Also, even if the stewarding is made to be consistent, their decisions will always be questioned by partisan fans and they will always be perceived as being wrong by at least some portion of spectators on every single decision. They're basically referees after all.
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Absolutely correct, Bhaji. I was going to say both these things myself.

There are pros and cons in every imaginable arrangement and we should remember what we have now is far better than it used to be. The problem seems to be that the public have become tired of lots of little things and have reached the point of being quick to criticise almost everything, especially penalties which will always be contentious with leading drivers, and perceived inconsistencies. Rarely do we have two genuinely comparable incidents, and even Rosberg's latest two, whilst similar, have differences.

The whole thing is far from ideal. 'Complicated' is not a selling point and 'very simple' does not work because different drivers will draw different lines in the sand. Unfortunately, over the past couple of decades a hand full of drivers have really taken the proverbial urine, with scant regard for the basics they had to learn in junior series. What we must not lose sight of is the basic etiquette of motor racing, especially with open-wheelers.

– So unfortunately, penalties are a necessary deterrent. If we had a list for every conceivable infringement and a corresponding penalty based upon its severity, people would complain "too complicated"; but without a list, people don't always understand the reasoning and disagreement is more likely.

Somehow, we must find a way not just to be more consistent with rules and penalties but also to demonstrate it to the ignorant!
:eek: :emoticon-0150-hands :confused:
 
What is a penalty for one should be a penalty for another, but that isn't what is happening. Once again Verstappen forced someone off track, Grosjean, and it wasn't even investigated, it was worse than when Rosberg got penalised in Germany as at least Rosberg was in front at the time. When they start punishing Max and Lewis the same as they punish everyone else, I'll be happier.
 
Big Ern said:
What is a penalty for one should be a penalty for another, but that isn't what is happening. Once again Verstappen forced someone off track, Grosjean, and it wasn't even investigated, it was worse than when Rosberg got penalised in Germany as at least Rosberg was in front at the time. When they start punishing Max and Lewis the same as they punish everyone else, I'll be happier.
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I think the rules definitely need to be cleared up though I don't agree Rosberg in Germany was the same as what Max did or what Lewis regularly does. Not saying what Lewis and Max did was right but they are different. Max and Lewis close the door more naturally and less aggressively as the corner exits where as Nico in Austria and Germany turned very late and sharply which closed the gap much quicker. Again, not saying one is right and the other is wrong only that they are different. I think any form of pushing someone off the track should be punished though it seems what Max and Lewis did/do is currently deemed acceptable, but perhaps with the whole "we want to clear the rules up" (see Smithers post above) move the FIA are talking, that might change. We can only hope.
 
what max did in Abu Dhabi to Grosjean was worse than what Rosberg did in Germany. In Germany Rosberg was in front and pushed Max wide, a move I've seen Max and Hamilton do lots of times without the stewards even bothering to look, whereas in Abu Dhabi Max tried to take Grosjean, but Grosjean pulled away down the straight, so Max dived down the inside, still behind, opened his steering and pushed Grosjean off the track, who then lost another position. Far worse, but the it's Max and not Rosberg, so I guess it's fair in your eyes too?
As for Austria, Rosberg wasn't near the track limits, Hamilton had room on the outside, unlike when Hamilton did it to Rosberg lap after lap in Bahrian and Rosberg was left no room at all, 'brilliant defending' apparently, but only when Max or Lewis do it. If it's good enough for one, you tell me why it's not good enough for the other? Hamilton should've been penalised in Bahrain for whatever Rosberg was punished for in Austria, or penalised in Austria for causing an avoidable accident.
 
Big Ern said:
what max did in Abu Dhabi to Grosjean was worse than what Rosberg did in Germany. In Germany Rosberg was in front and pushed Max wide, a move I've seen Max and Hamilton do lots of times without the stewards even bothering to look, whereas in Abu Dhabi Max tried to take Grosjean, but Grosjean pulled away down the straight, so Max dived down the inside, still behind, opened his steering and pushed Grosjean off the track, who then lost another position. Far worse, but the it's Max and not Rosberg, so I guess it's fair in your eyes too?
As for Austria, Rosberg wasn't near the track limits, Hamilton had room on the outside, unlike when Hamilton did it to Rosberg lap after lap in Bahrian and Rosberg was left no room at all, 'brilliant defending' apparently, but only when Max or Lewis do it. If it's good enough for one, you tell me why it's not good enough for the other? Hamilton should've been penalised in Bahrain for whatever Rosberg was punished for in Austria, or penalised in Austria for causing an avoidable accident.
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Record player's stuck again and the season hasn't even started yet!
 
We haven’t revisited this thread which was started in July last year, but the key points still remain. We are entering an era of closer racing, which means the rules need clarity and consistency more than ever.

Personally I think the last two races have highlighted more than ever the grey areas.
 
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