Goodbye Jose and......

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Some of you guys must be really tough on your ex girlfriends.

When its over its a final kiss and then its goodbye and move on.

Adeus Jose e agradecimentos para as memórias.

Now you mention it Godders, some of us are. Never forgive betrayal and never forget your mistakes so that you don't make them again.
Bollocks to final kiss, more like give me my favourite ****ing T shirt and CDs back.

 

[fatletiss]

Some of you guys must be really tough on your ex girlfriends.

When its over its a final kiss and then its goodbye and move on.

Adeus Jose e agradecimentos para as memórias.

Only the ones you dump. The ones that dump you are bitches, witches or maybe even lesbians


*joking before I offend anyone with my awful politically incorrect and sexist line.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I am sure there is plenty of good CB's out there somewhere (or even younger) in the 24 to 27 years age bracket that both Arsenal and United are aware of. Because a side has money and is a big club it would be rare for them to just look for a short term solution to their respective problems. Surely they will not be in the habit of throwing around £11 to £15 mil on stop gap players along with wages to go with it? That would not be an investment which is usually the strategy of every club.
I could be wrong but I think in Fonte's case a lot of these rumours have come about because of his association with his agent who happens to be United managers agent too.
With some of you I almost get the impression you are almost wishing Fonte away!!
As for the supposed Arsenal interest, once again although I could be wrong, it is more likely someone stirring the pot and making 2 and 2 come to 5.

I would normally agree with you here Beddy, but Mourinho is a very short-termist manager though and buys and works with what he needs to win the title that year (hence the outlay on Ibrahimovic for instance) so it would fit his MO pretty well.

 

[St. Luigi Scrosoppi]

The analogy with an ex girlfriend isn't far of the mark. You invest a great deal of emotion and time on the relationship just as you do with a football club and a player but it always hurts most when you next see the woman who has jilted you arm in arm with some bloke you detest. With footballers we end up disliking them for going to our rivals which will ultimately harm us. I haven't heard any bad stuff about Pelle in fact the bloke sent us a good luck message for the season.

 

[Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc)]

However you still have said you will be angry with the club and not Fonte. I don't understand this as the club don't want him to leave. Fonte is the one wanting to leave, so this is where my angst will lie.

Forget the contradiction part then, I am just commenting that I find it strange that you say you have the negative feeling (be that anger/blame or whatever) toward the club and not Fonte. To me that doesn't seem fair. If the club came out and were actively trying to sell Fonte the I'd understand. It's like blaming the victim of an accident and standing by the agitator of the accident.

I accept that the Board now have a decision to make. They can refuse the bid, however that then comes with potential repercussions and gambles on Fonte's reaction and effect on the team. The Board haven't created this situation, Fonte has.

I'm not asking this aggressively, I just find it a very odd way of looking at things.

*assuming that he does actually want to leave and it's not all bollocks*

My negative feeling would come solely from the fact that I think keeping Fonte would be more beneficial to the team than selling him (unless for a big offer of course). I see your point, but my point of view comes from the fact that the board have the deciding say on whatever happens. So if Fonte does leave then the board will have been the ones who ultimately let it happen.

Although we could well keep him and it back fire, and then I'd be wrong! Wouldn'tbe the first time but that's my thinking atpresent.

 

[Beef]

My negative feeling would come solely from the fact that I think keeping Fonte would be more beneficial to the team than selling him (unless for a big offer of course). I see your point, but my point of view comes from the fact that the board have the deciding say on whatever happens. So if Fonte does leave then the board will have been the ones who ultimately let it happen.

Although we could well keep him and it back fire, and then I'd be wrong! Wouldn'tbe the first time but that's my thinking atpresent.

If a player wants to go and puts up enough fight, a club can do nothing.

 

[Beddy]

If a player wants to go and puts up enough fight, a club can do nothing.

True.............. although didn't we do that with spider and Wanyama. they eventually went but at least when we ready to let them go.

 

[Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc)]

If a player wants to go and puts up enough fight, a club can do nothing.

This isn't true. It is a risk to make them stay against their will, but a club can say no.
Berahino for example. Can't put much more of fight than he did, publicly refusing to ever play again. But they kept hold of him. Turns out they should've taken the 23m now but it shows a club has the ultimate say. Schneiderlin and Wanyama other notable examples of a club having the final say.

 

[Beef]

The analogy with an ex girlfriend isn't far of the mark. You invest a great deal of emotion and time on the relationship just as you do with a football club and a player but it always hurts most when you next see the woman who has jilted you arm in arm with some bloke you detest. With footballers we end up disliking them for going to our rivals which will ultimately harm us. I haven't heard any bad stuff about Pelle in fact the bloke sent us a good luck message for the season.

It all depends what kind of ex or exs you had. I have never got jealous seeing a ex with some one else.

Back to Fonte. I am not going to hate the guy, I am just going to put him in the same box as all the rest of the players. A guy that says he is loyal, but really isn't.

 

[Beef]

This isn't true. It is a risk to make them stay against their will, but a club can say no.
Berahino for example. Can't put much more of fight than he did, publicly refusing to ever play again. But they kept hold of him. Turns out they should've taken the 23m now but it shows a club has the ultimate say. Schneiderlin and Wanyama other notable examples of a club having the final say.

Yes it is true. As I said if a player puts up enough of a fight we can't do anything.

Morgan: only shut up as he was promised a move the next season. So he got what he wanted.

Wanyama: the same.

Berahino: He backed down because he was told he could leave the next season. He will go as soon as WBA get another player.

So in all cases they got what they want. You can not stop a player from leaving you can just delay it. If Fonte fights enough he will go. Players have too much power for anything different to happen.

 

[nice teeth]

If a player wants to go and puts up enough fight, a club can do nothing.

This is true... to a point, that point being that forcing a an unhappy player to stay can have a destabilizing effect on the team (and therefor be bad for the club), but it is not true as a fact.
The club can (but would not necessarily be wise to) refuse to sell, as we did when Spurs came in for Morgan. It is a choice that comes down to what is likely to do the least damage.

*EDIT* now I see the post above...

Delaying a player leaving is the same as stopping a player leaving. With the exception MLT & Ryan Giggs, everybody leaves eventually. Nothing in football is permanent, that is why contracts, even if not stuck to are for a definitive period.

 

[Beef]

This is true... to a point, that point being that forcing a an unhappy player to stay can have a destabilizing effect on the team (and therefor be bad for the club), but it is not true as a fact.
The club can (but would not necessarily be wise to) refuse to sell, as we did when Spurs came in for Morgan. It is a choice that comes down to what is likely to do the least damage.

See my reply above. It is very much true that clubs can not stop a player leaving.

 

[Shepherd's Clearing]

I know football is an exception to the rule but I'm not sure I want to live in a country where an employer says to an employee 'you will work for us and that's it'. I mean I know the wages and standard of life are fantasy-word fare but basically it still is an employee, employer situation.

Every job I've worked on I've left when I felt like it, I remember one boss say 'I'll let you go.." I just laughed at him, "I'm going anyway".

As has been said before most clubs [employers] will get rid of you as soon as you cease to be benefical for them.

Mind you my anger and disbelief with the way businesses and employers operate in the UK is one of the main reasons I retired early at 51. I just couldn't stand it any longer and my wife's three pensions were easily enough for us to live on. So perhaps I should just shut my gob?

 

[Beef]

True.............. although didn't we do that with spider and Wanyama. they eventually went but at least when we ready to let them go.

But they still went that is the point. They only stopped moaning because they were promised they could go the next season, so they got what they wanted. You also have to factor in Fonte's age, he see's it as one last big pay day or chance to get a medal. A player who is 32 will fight more then a player who is younger and believes they have more time.

 

[Beef]

I know football is an exception to the rule but I'm not sure I want to live in a country where an employer says to an employee 'you will work for us and that's it'. I mean I know the wages and standard of life are fantasy-word fare but basically it still is an employee, employer situation.

Every job I've worked on I've left when I felt like it, I remember one boss say 'I'll let you go.." I just laughed at him, "I'm going anyway".

As has been said before most clubs [employers] will get rid of you as soon as you cease to be benefical for them.

Mind you my anger and disbelief with the way businesses and employers operate in the UK is one of the main reasons I retired early at 51. I just couldn't stand it any longer and my wife's three pensions were easily enough for us to live on. So perhaps I should just shut my gob?

Real jobs and football jobs can't be compared imo. When you get a job you aren't given a 4 yr contract on £60k+ a week and mad incentives.

 

[Qwerty]

Because players get a boost in desirability after they have performed in a successful team in a major tournament. It's the sudden desirability that boosts their price. His price was lower before the tournament because Man U and Arsenal had never even noticed him playing for us. Tragic but true.

An excellent read is "Soccernomics". Very, very interesting.

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=soccernomics

While you're at it, buy

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=the+numbers+game+football

Two books that are (a) excellent reads and (b) ways to understand what maths (and money) say about football.

Vin

Les Reed has definitely read Soccernomics (or worked the main bits out for himself at least). In a few years this is going to turn out to be a very important season - new contracts for Virgil, Forster, JWP, Bertrand and Davis give us so much more stability. And it turns out that giving them a pay rise is a good thing - their transfer value increases and it lets us fit better players into our pay structure. And if that we didn't pay them enough, someone else quickly would.

One other thing, we didn't sign Hojberg, McCarthy, Redmond, Pied, Van Dijk, Clasie, Cedric, Tadic, Mane, Pelle, Wanyama and Lovren by promising them a wage drop. I wonder what Euro football forums/Twitter are like every summer when everyone leaves again to some PL bench/relegation battle.


(the actual reason I quoted your post Vin was to ask if you were doing the league table ranking competition again?)

 

[saintkitch]

But they still went that is the point. They only stopped moaning because they were promised they could go the next season, so they got what they wanted. You also have to factor in Fonte's age, he see's it as one last big pay day or chance to get a medal. A player who is 32 will fight more then a player who is younger and believes they have more time.

Thats not really much of an arguement as every player will move at some point, WBA did stop Berahinio leaving when he wanted to leave. Its all well and good saying he will leave but maybe the club that were after him at the time are no longer interested so the move he wanted and almost went on strike for is no longer available. If the player is under contract then the club has the final say.

 

[Saintmagic]

The key difference between Morgan and Wanyama situation is age. Telling them to wait a year calmed them down and they got on with it. The chances of a team like Utd/Arsenal wanting a 33 year old Fonte in a years time are very slim, so he probably isn't going to accept that as a solution if he wants to go

 

[Beef]

Thats not really much of an arguement as every player will move at some point, WBA did stop Berahinio leaving when he wanted to leave. Its all well and good saying he will leave but maybe the club that were after him at the time are no longer interested so the move he wanted and almost went on strike for is no longer available. If the player is under contract then the club has the final say.

The club hasn't a final say. You really think if we could have stopped Shaw, Lovren, Wanyama, Morgan, Clyne etc etc from going we wouldn't have?

At the end of the day all the players got what they wanted.

 

[jonny 'hasen' shuttle]

money cant buy you fonte
cant buy you fonte
money cant buy you fonte

does that work as a tune or did is only work for stones?