Effect of Brexit

[andytoprankin]

You can come and join EFTA. Fríverslunarsamtök Evrópu is only Ísland, Norway, Sviss and Liechtenstein but we have lots of money and fishing.

That's probably enough. With fish, some cuckoo clocks and Liechtenstein's false teeth, we may have a deal. I should stress that we'll be doing without the oil, financial sector and we only have expensive, unsubsidised farm produce. How are you for knackered railways, decimated health and diminishing education? We do have a growth industry - apparently we print UB40s in this country. Is it still on?

 

[Bolton's Boots]

decimated health and diminishing education?

Hang on a mo - if the Scots take the lead in this plan all will be ok in both areas. ONS figures show that Scotland is the most highly educated country in Europe, and among the best educated in the world. And we still have a much-cherished & well-funded NHS...

 

[andytoprankin]

Hang on a mo - if the Scots take the lead in this plan all will be ok in both areas. ONS figures show that Scotland is the most highly educated country in Europe, and among the best educated in the world. And we still have a much-cherished & well-funded NHS...

All right, all right, stop trying to edge us out. We had something going then.

 

[superhorns]

Hang on a mo - if the Scots take the lead in this plan all will be ok in both areas. ONS figures show that Scotland is the most highly educated country in Europe, and among the best educated in the world. And we still have a much-cherished & well-funded NHS...

Until the Barnett Formula ends. Hopefully Sturgeon drags the Scots into obscurity.

 

[colognehornet]

Desperate - no chance of second referendum. The nation has spoken.

The nation has spoken but it is Parliament which is sovereign. No legal provision was included in the EU. referendum, unlike the AV. referendum of 2011, which had a legal trigger attached to it. Legally the referendum was nothing other than a tester of opinion (something which can change from week to week). All of those who woke up the day afterwards waving flags and expecting instant action must now be a little disenchanted with the fact that even Gove thinks that article 50 will not be invoked before 2018 (why ? because there is no government in the UK. which has any idea as to what Britain's negotiating position will be) - the majority in the house of commons for remain is 450 to 150. So, we have a general election looming before any such thing can happen. Brexit is a lot further away than you think (if it happens at all) - and will probably end up with exactly the same conditions as we have now but with no voting rights. At any rate there are lots of twists and turns to come.

 

[Bloother]

Like HH, this will be my only comment on this thread. I won't get drawn into a tit-for-tat exchange when what I think does not correspond with what someone else thinks.

Frankly, I'm embarrassed at the reaction of people to the outcome of this referendum. It appears that some people are fine with democracy, as long as it returns the decision that they want. Guess what folks...that's not democracy.

It appears that the media is to blame for forcing people to vote in the way that the media wants them to vote, yet are only too happy to accept stories the media print and broadcast when it supports their point of view.

It appears that some people as so arrogant that they label people who voted differently to them as cretins, racists and rock-throwers. Why? Because they voted differently to them.

The UK voted to leave the EU. I understand people may be fearful, nervous, and (for those who wanted to remain) disappointed. What I don't get is the small minded attitude that the majority who voted leave are wrong, and the minority right. I reading of petitions to re-run the referendum, presumably by those who supported the losing side. I'm reading of proposals for an independent London, presumably from those on the losing side. Even the reaction of the SNP is laughable. Only Westminster can grant another referendum in Scotland. This appears to have been lost in all the hot air swirling around since the result was announced. But then...that's the media for you.

We are leaving the EU. Time to unite as a country, roll up our sleeves and get on with it. Its time for strong leadership. That is why I don't want to wait until October for a new Prime Minister. I want it sorted now. Then I want the Prime Minister to set out what happens next and when. I want a leader to make it clear that we will leave when it is in our best interests to leave. I want a leader that will do their best to unite the country and take us forward. If I don't get this, I'll be fed up...hell I'll be really pissed off. What I won't be doing is demanding the Tories re-run the leadership election to get the candidate I think is best (and before you all jump to the conclusion that I'm a Tory...how wrong you are).

This is not intended as a comment on the benefits or dis-benefits of staying in the EU. This is not a comment on whether the outcome was good/bad/right/wrong. I've kept out of that debate on this forum and I continue to keep out of it. Why? Because this Forum is, for me, a football forum for supporters of Watford FC. I love throwing stuff around about WFC and hearing what others think. However, I have for some time felt that this Forum is not the same one that I joined when it first started. The rot set in (for me) with the Scottish referendum, continued with the politics thread and has now reached a peak with the EU referendum. I haven't posted any comments since April and, whist I have been dipping in regularly, I haven't missed posting. I think the needle from the non-football thread has seeped into the rest of the forum and, for me at least, is no longer the joy it once was. Therefore this will be my last post on this forum.

 

[andytoprankin]

Like HH, this will be my only comment on this thread. I won't get drawn into a tit-for-tat exchange when what I think does not correspond with what someone else thinks.

Frankly, I'm embarrassed at the reaction of people to the outcome of this referendum. It appears that some people are fine with democracy, as long as it returns the decision that they want. Guess what folks...that's not democracy.

It appears that the media is to blame for forcing people to vote in the way that the media wants them to vote, yet are only too happy to accept stories the media print and broadcast when it supports their point of view.

It appears that some people as so arrogant that they label people who voted differently to them as cretins, racists and rock-throwers. Why? Because they voted differently to them.

The UK voted to leave the EU. I understand people may be fearful, nervous, and (for those who wanted to remain) disappointed. What I don't get is the small minded attitude that the majority who voted leave are wrong, and the minority right. I reading of petitions to re-run the referendum, presumably by those who supported the losing side. I'm reading of proposals for an independent London, presumably from those on the losing side. Even the reaction of the SNP is laughable. Only Westminster can grant another referendum in Scotland. This appears to have been lost in all the hot air swirling around since the result was announced. But then...that's the media for you.

We are leaving the EU. Time to unite as a country, roll up our sleeves and get on with it. Its time for strong leadership. That is why I don't want to wait until October for a new Prime Minister. I want it sorted now. Then I want the Prime Minister to set out what happens next and when. I want a leader to make it clear that we will leave when it is in our best interests to leave. I want a leader that will do their best to unite the country and take us forward. If I don't get this, I'll be fed up...hell I'll be really pissed off. What I won't be doing is demanding the Tories re-run the leadership election to get the candidate I think is best (and before you all jump to the conclusion that I'm a Tory...how wrong you are).

This is not intended as a comment on the benefits or dis-benefits of staying in the EU. This is not a comment on whether the outcome was good/bad/right/wrong. I've kept out of that debate on this forum and I continue to keep out of it. Why? Because this Forum is, for me, a football forum for supporters of Watford FC. I love throwing stuff around about WFC and hearing what others think. However, I have for some time felt that this Forum is not the same one that I joined when it first started. The rot set in (for me) with the Scottish referendum, continued with the politics thread and has now reached a peak with the EU referendum. I haven't posted any comments since April and, whist I have been dipping in regularly, I haven't missed posting. I think the needle from the non-football thread has seeped into the rest of the forum and, for me at least, is no longer the joy it once was. Therefore this will be my last post on this forum.

My sincere apologies, bloother. I agree with what you say about this forum and ask you to reconsider. I will avoid all non-football threads. You are right, this has become a political forum and it shouldn't be. I left the forum when the political/religious side of it became too much. I apologise if I have done the same to you or others.
For the record, if there is a suggestion I have called anybody a racist, I must strongly refute that.
I hope that you understand that this had been monumentally disappointing for many. For me, my wife and I are considering leaving the country, so I'm sure you can see it is a very emotive subject.
In short, I agree, you're right, let's keep it to football.

 

[colognehornet]

Like HH, this will be my only comment on this thread. I won't get drawn into a tit-for-tat exchange when what I think does not correspond with what someone else thinks.

Frankly, I'm embarrassed at the reaction of people to the outcome of this referendum. It appears that some people are fine with democracy, as long as it returns the decision that they want. Guess what folks...that's not democracy.

It appears that the media is to blame for forcing people to vote in the way that the media wants them to vote, yet are only too happy to accept stories the media print and broadcast when it supports their point of view.

It appears that some people as so arrogant that they label people who voted differently to them as cretins, racists and rock-throwers. Why? Because they voted differently to them.

The UK voted to leave the EU. I understand people may be fearful, nervous, and (for those who wanted to remain) disappointed. What I don't get is the small minded attitude that the majority who voted leave are wrong, and the minority right. I reading of petitions to re-run the referendum, presumably by those who supported the losing side. I'm reading of proposals for an independent London, presumably from those on the losing side. Even the reaction of the SNP is laughable. Only Westminster can grant another referendum in Scotland. This appears to have been lost in all the hot air swirling around since the result was announced. But then...that's the media for you.

We are leaving the EU. Time to unite as a country, roll up our sleeves and get on with it. Its time for strong leadership. That is why I don't want to wait until October for a new Prime Minister. I want it sorted now. Then I want the Prime Minister to set out what happens next and when. I want a leader to make it clear that we will leave when it is in our best interests to leave. I want a leader that will do their best to unite the country and take us forward. If I don't get this, I'll be fed up...hell I'll be really pissed off. What I won't be doing is demanding the Tories re-run the leadership election to get the candidate I think is best (and before you all jump to the conclusion that I'm a Tory...how wrong you are).

This is not intended as a comment on the benefits or dis-benefits of staying in the EU. This is not a comment on whether the outcome was good/bad/right/wrong. I've kept out of that debate on this forum and I continue to keep out of it. Why? Because this Forum is, for me, a football forum for supporters of Watford FC. I love throwing stuff around about WFC and hearing what others think. However, I have for some time felt that this Forum is not the same one that I joined when it first started. The rot set in (for me) with the Scottish referendum, continued with the politics thread and has now reached a peak with the EU referendum. I haven't posted any comments since April and, whist I have been dipping in regularly, I haven't missed posting. I think the needle from the non-football thread has seeped into the rest of the forum and, for me at least, is no longer the joy it once was. Therefore this will be my last post on this forum.

I agree, if I understand you correctly, that politics should be kept to the politics threads - and certainly no animosities which arise on those threads should be allowed to flow over onto other threads. For me it is rather puzzling that you claim that Scotland can only hold a referendum with the agreement of Westminster, yet Britain can hold a referendum at any time about the EU. without the agreement of Brussels - so which organization is the more democratic of the two ? Britain, which forces membership, or the EU. which is voluntary.
I deeply regret it if anyone leaves the forum on account of these political threads - I think that we should be adult enough to be able to go hammer and tongs with someone on one of these threads, yet discuss football with the same person, amicably, on another. It stands to reason that political threads will produce heated arguments - and also that this particular theme will be even worse because (in contrast to a general election) the results of it are more permanent.

 

[superhorns]

The nation has spoken but it is Parliament which is sovereign. No legal provision was included in the EU. referendum, unlike the AV. referendum of 2011, which had a legal trigger attached to it. Legally the referendum was nothing other than a tester of opinion (something which can change from week to week). All of those who woke up the day afterwards waving flags and expecting instant action must now be a little disenchanted with the fact that even Gove thinks that article 50 will not be invoked before 2018 (why ? because there is no government in the UK. which has any idea as to what Britain's negotiating position will be) - the majority in the house of commons for remain is 450 to 150. So, we have a general election looming before any such thing can happen. Brexit is a lot further away than you think (if it happens at all) - and will probably end up with exactly the same conditions as we have now but with no voting rights. At any rate there are lots of twists and turns to come.

Parliament voted to have a referendum on the outcome of the UK's membership of the EU. The result was not binding by law but it is unthinkable for the UK's parliament not to honour the will of the people just because most of the MP's were on the losing side.

Article 50 should be invoked precisely when it suits the UK, it is solely our choice on the timing but the UK has to bear in mind that goodwill is required on both sides.

It is foolish to suggest there is any chance of having a re-run , a la crooked Brussels.

 

[yorkshirehornet]

Like HH, this will be my only comment on this thread. I won't get drawn into a tit-for-tat exchange when what I think does not correspond with what someone else thinks.

Frankly, I'm embarrassed at the reaction of people to the outcome of this referendum. It appears that some people are fine with democracy, as long as it returns the decision that they want. Guess what folks...that's not democracy.

It appears that the media is to blame for forcing people to vote in the way that the media wants them to vote, yet are only too happy to accept stories the media print and broadcast when it supports their point of view.

It appears that some people as so arrogant that they label people who voted differently to them as cretins, racists and rock-throwers. Why? Because they voted differently to them.

The UK voted to leave the EU. I understand people may be fearful, nervous, and (for those who wanted to remain) disappointed. What I don't get is the small minded attitude that the majority who voted leave are wrong, and the minority right. I reading of petitions to re-run the referendum, presumably by those who supported the losing side. I'm reading of proposals for an independent London, presumably from those on the losing side. Even the reaction of the SNP is laughable. Only Westminster can grant another referendum in Scotland. This appears to have been lost in all the hot air swirling around since the result was announced. But then...that's the media for you.

We are leaving the EU. Time to unite as a country, roll up our sleeves and get on with it. Its time for strong leadership. That is why I don't want to wait until October for a new Prime Minister. I want it sorted now. Then I want the Prime Minister to set out what happens next and when. I want a leader to make it clear that we will leave when it is in our best interests to leave. I want a leader that will do their best to unite the country and take us forward. If I don't get this, I'll be fed up...hell I'll be really pissed off. What I won't be doing is demanding the Tories re-run the leadership election to get the candidate I think is best (and before you all jump to the conclusion that I'm a Tory...how wrong you are).

This is not intended as a comment on the benefits or dis-benefits of staying in the EU. This is not a comment on whether the outcome was good/bad/right/wrong. I've kept out of that debate on this forum and I continue to keep out of it. Why? Because this Forum is, for me, a football forum for supporters of Watford FC. I love throwing stuff around about WFC and hearing what others think. However, I have for some time felt that this Forum is not the same one that I joined when it first started. The rot set in (for me) with the Scottish referendum, continued with the politics thread and has now reached a peak with the EU referendum. I haven't posted any comments since April and, whist I have been dipping in regularly, I haven't missed posting. I think the needle from the non-football thread has seeped into the rest of the forum and, for me at least, is no longer the joy it once was. Therefore this will be my last post on this forum.

Sorry if I have offended Bloother. Better if I stick to gardening and my Neil Young collection

 

[superhorns]

Like HH, this will be my only comment on this thread. I won't get drawn into a tit-for-tat exchange when what I think does not correspond with what someone else thinks.

Frankly, I'm embarrassed at the reaction of people to the outcome of this referendum. It appears that some people are fine with democracy, as long as it returns the decision that they want. Guess what folks...that's not democracy.

It appears that the media is to blame for forcing people to vote in the way that the media wants them to vote, yet are only too happy to accept stories the media print and broadcast when it supports their point of view.

It appears that some people as so arrogant that they label people who voted differently to them as cretins, racists and rock-throwers. Why? Because they voted differently to them.

The UK voted to leave the EU. I understand people may be fearful, nervous, and (for those who wanted to remain) disappointed. What I don't get is the small minded attitude that the majority who voted leave are wrong, and the minority right. I reading of petitions to re-run the referendum, presumably by those who supported the losing side. I'm reading of proposals for an independent London, presumably from those on the losing side. Even the reaction of the SNP is laughable. Only Westminster can grant another referendum in Scotland. This appears to have been lost in all the hot air swirling around since the result was announced. But then...that's the media for you.

We are leaving the EU. Time to unite as a country, roll up our sleeves and get on with it. Its time for strong leadership. That is why I don't want to wait until October for a new Prime Minister. I want it sorted now. Then I want the Prime Minister to set out what happens next and when. I want a leader to make it clear that we will leave when it is in our best interests to leave. I want a leader that will do their best to unite the country and take us forward. If I don't get this, I'll be fed up...hell I'll be really pissed off. What I won't be doing is demanding the Tories re-run the leadership election to get the candidate I think is best (and before you all jump to the conclusion that I'm a Tory...how wrong you are).

This is not intended as a comment on the benefits or dis-benefits of staying in the EU. This is not a comment on whether the outcome was good/bad/right/wrong. I've kept out of that debate on this forum and I continue to keep out of it. Why? Because this Forum is, for me, a football forum for supporters of Watford FC. I love throwing stuff around about WFC and hearing what others think. However, I have for some time felt that this Forum is not the same one that I joined when it first started. The rot set in (for me) with the Scottish referendum, continued with the politics thread and has now reached a peak with the EU referendum. I haven't posted any comments since April and, whist I have been dipping in regularly, I haven't missed posting. I think the needle from the non-football thread has seeped into the rest of the forum and, for me at least, is no longer the joy it once was. Therefore this will be my last post on this forum.

lots of common sense, very good post.

It is now time some on here accepted the decision and moved on.

 

[colognehornet]

lots of common sense, very good post.

It is now time some on here accepted the decision and moved on.

Moving on means different things to different people. For me it means damage limitation (as far as the Brexit vote was concerned). As to the rest of Bloother's text, political threads lead to hot discussions and anyone posting on them does so with the understanding that it may be attacked by someone else - there are plenty of other threads to choose from. Having said that, politics should be kept to the political threads and animosities from there should not overlap onto other threads - at least I think that is what Bloother said.

 

[superhorns]

Moving on means different things to different people. For me it means damage limitation (as far as the Brexit vote was concerned). As to the rest of Bloother's text, political threads lead to hot discussions and anyone posting on them does so with the understanding that it may be attacked by someone else - there are plenty of other threads to choose from. Having said that, politics should be kept to the political threads and animosities from there should not overlap onto other threads - at least I think that is what Bloother said.

The main point from his post is you 'remain' guys should simply accept the result.

 

[colognehornet]

The main point from his post is you 'remain' guys should simply accept the result.

Was there any indication from either Farage or Bojo that they would simply have accepted the result if it had narrowly gone the other way - no, they would have continued in their goal, they would have continued needling, agitating and making a nuisance of themselves etc. - and I am doing the same.

 

[superhorns]

Was there any indication from either Farage or Bojo that they would simply have accepted the result if it had narrowly gone the other way - no, they would have continued in their goal, they would have continued needling, agitating and making a nuisance of themselves etc. - and I am doing the same.

You won't change the government's views whinging on a football forum. They would not want to be compared to those undemocratic eurocrats and have another vote until the 'correct' result was obtained. What a laughing stock they would be.

Have a good weekend everybody, I've got my dancing shoes on ready for a gig in a pub in Berko.

 

[colognehornet]

You won't change the government's views whinging on a football forum. They would not want to be compared to those undemocratic eurocrats and have another vote until the 'correct' result was obtained. What a laughing stock they would be.

Have a good weekend everybody, I've got my dancing shoes on ready for a gig in a pub in Berko.

What the hell are any of us doing here other than whinging on a football forum (trying to put the World to rights) - that's why we come on here and have political threads. I do this in real life and in real politics as well.

 

[Bolton's Boots]

Even the reaction of the SNP is laughable. Only Westminster can grant another referendum in Scotland. This appears to have been lost in all the hot air swirling around since the result was announced. But then...that's the media for you.

Actually the reaction of the SNP is not so laughable when you're fully aware of the law covering the situation. They - as well as both Wales and N Ireland - do have the means to either negate the result of the EU referendum and force England to remain, or to force Westminster to grant a second a second Independence referendum. Personally, I can't see them opting for the former - but the latter is an entirely different proposition.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201516/ldselect/ldeucom/138/138.pdf - is a link to The House of Lords European Union Committee report of last month on the process of withdrawing from the EU. Page 19, item 70 of chapter 7 - The role of the devolved legislatures - provides the relevant information, namely

" Scottish Parliament would have to give its consent to measures extinguishing the application of EU law in Scotland.... such measures would entail amendment of section 29 of the Scotland Act 1998, which binds the Scottish Parliament to act in a manner compatible with EU law.....the Scottish Parliament’s consent would be required."

This was the answer given to the committee by Sir David Edward KCMG, QC, PC, FRSE, former Judge of the Court of Justice of the European Union. He added that he could envisage certain political advantages being drawn from not giving consent - and it doesn't really take a deal of thought to come up with what those advantages might be...

Sorry to hear that you're leaving the forum Bloother - sincerely hope that one day you will reconsider.

 

[vic-rijrode]

...Because this Forum is, for me, a football forum for supporters of Watford FC. I love throwing stuff around about WFC and hearing what others think. However, I have for some time felt that this Forum is not the same one that I joined when it first started. The rot set in (for me) with the Scottish referendum, continued with the politics thread and has now reached a peak with the EU referendum. I haven't posted any comments since April and, whist I have been dipping in regularly, I haven't missed posting. I think the needle from the non-football thread has seeped into the rest of the forum and, for me at least, is no longer the joy it once was. Therefore this will be my last post on this forum.

Well that is a great pity Bloother, I would urge you to toughen your skin, stay and continue your football related contributions - you have more friends here than you may think - to lose yet another poster from this forum will continue its decline and decay from the 606 days. Our major problem here is that there are just too few posters who want to engage in purely football matters. The only time we on this board seemingly get really involved with Watford FC is on a match day - and with the advent of (illegal) streaming that involvement dwindles weekly. I have to admit that the constant to-ing and fro-ing on the Political threads (which are coming to dominate the topics) get ever more tiresome to me and maybe I have become a little too juvenile, sarcastic and flippant with my contributions lately. For that I apologise.

As my last word on the EU referendum, folks are obviously aware that I was a fervent Remain supporter considering British involvement with the "real" world of the EU with its advantages and disadvantages, benefits and drawbacks infinitely preferable to the fantasy world that the Leavers have portrayed and now have to deliver. Having said that, the anger I felt on Friday morning is ebbing slowly and, although currently I am still ashamed and embarrassed to be English at how both campaigns were "waged" and how the vote was won, I await with fascination how we will disentangle ourselves. I do not share the unbounded optimism of sh & w-y but neither do I believe that exit (when it actually happens) will be the disaster some on here are anticipating.

With reference to Bloother's feeling that the Forum has changed from when it was set up, I too share that view. I have been increasingly dropping in on (but not contributing to) the Hornets Nest board as an antidote to the bickering on here. The humour on there can be (mostly) refreshing and there is very definitely far more "meat" on football matters there than on this board. But I would not want this board to descend into long and frankly boring tirades of whether Jurado is the best/worst player Watford have ever had, what formation Mazzuri is likely to play and what players we are targetting, have signed and regret selling (Forestieri anyone?).

So I shall Remain for now (pun intended), even on the political threads and only consider Leaving if the decline reaches a point where my interest is extinguished by ever more extreme squabbles between the contributors.

Sermon over.

 

[Jsybarry]

If we're getting people feeling this way, should the mods close the threads relating to the referendum but maybe leave the main political thread open?

 

[colognehornet]

Actually the reaction of the SNP is not so laughable when you're fully aware of the law covering the situation. They - as well as both Wales and N Ireland - do have the means to either negate the result of the EU referendum and force England to remain, or to force Westminster to grant a second a second Independence referendum. Personally, I can't see them opting for the former - but the latter is an entirely different proposition.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201516/ldselect/ldeucom/138/138.pdf - is a link to The House of Lords European Union Committee report of last month on the process of withdrawing from the EU. Page 19, item 70 of chapter 7 - The role of the devolved legislatures - provides the relevant information, namely

" Scottish Parliament would have to give its consent to measures extinguishing the application of EU law in Scotland.... such measures would entail amendment of section 29 of the Scotland Act 1998, which binds the Scottish Parliament to act in a manner compatible with EU law.....the Scottish Parliament’s consent would be required."

This was the answer given to the committee by Sir David Edward KCMG, QC, PC, FRSE, former Judge of the Court of Justice of the European Union. He added that he could envisage certain political advantages being drawn from not giving consent - and it doesn't really take a deal of thought to come up with what those advantages might be...

Sorry to hear that you're leaving the forum Bloother - sincerely hope that one day you will reconsider.

Interesting post BB. It also shows that the issue of Brexit is by no means resolved - we have had a test of public opinion with nothing binding about it. Having said that, it would be very risky for the house of commons to ignore the result but......there is still a majority in there of 450-150 for remain, and that would not change much after an election. We would have 2 years after the invocation of article 50 in which a reversal was possible at any time - and, parliament is within its rights to call another referendum at any time over that period, citing changed circumstances as the reason. The conditions for that referendum could include a threshold of some kind (this is a perfectly legal requirement for such a thing), so the actual chances of Brexit are still around 5% I would suggest. In the meantime there are talks of some reforms taking place in Brussels. Interesting info. about Scotland and their powers to actually block this result, which I confess to not knowing.
I am truly sorry to be losing any posters as a result of political threads, but feel that if someone is disturbed by them then all they have to do is ignore them. It is inevitable over the summer period that the contributions to football threads will be fewer, and not everybody here is interested in international football - normally the problem on these forums is keeping the forums alive over the summer (which the referendum has done for some of us) - in the past we have used different games for the same purpose. What is vital is that political differences do not cross over on to non political threads.