LEAVE OR REMAIN

In which case we truly need to disband parliament and bring in a dictator or let there be a free for all to become that.

 

Some remain voters.

 

Beat me to it, glad you adjusted the irony.

 

Sturgeon and Davidson might be the media darlings but the general consensus I find on platforms I frequent (of both left and right) hate them. They are a horrible version of modern politics which is to shriek and interrupt constantly. I remember years ago politicians talking over each other and in recent years there has been this clamour for politicians to stop doing this which for a while worked but now we have people like Sturgeon and Davidson who constantly do it.

On all the debates the older politicians that used to talk over each other have "learned" to be polite or back down but this newer breed of politicians as well as the very vocal lefty celebrity that gets invited on panels these days are even worse than they used to be.

This new breed is like my boys when one is saying something and the other just goes no it isn't, no it isn't constantly.

 

Politics is embarrassing to watch. I wonder what it was like in the days where there was a very real threat that the country could rise up and behead you, if you treated them too badly..
(Just kidding. Kind of)

 

Tell you what's good.

People are actually turning out and voting. More so than I can recall. I live near the local polling station and it's been a constant stream of people walking past and queueing up to go into the hall and cast their vote.

It'd be great if we could have higher turnouts routinely and it wasn't such a turn up for the books.

 

Yes, I thought this might happen. However, although it is an apparent simple choice, people are considering it is a simple answer.

 

Yes, true.

'Pick between these two very different options' isn't quite 'read and inform yourself on several parties and politicians and then pick your favourite'.

But still, good to see.

 

Indeed. And as you say, one wishes the electorate could get just as enthusiastic at other voting times. Under the usual turnouts, even proportional representation wouldn't be representative. As for something as ridiculous as the first-past-the-post system, with an average turnout of less than 40% of the electorate, as little as less than 20% could be guaranteed represented by the government of the day.

 

Mr Juncker is helping people make their minds up.....
On the eve of the most important election of our time we have it straight from the mouth of the unelected cockwomble that is the European Commission President, there will be no more negotiating, there will be no better deal, thanks Mr Juncker, thanks for making sure the British people know exactly where they stand, thanks for completely undermining Cameron's lies when he say's we can campaign for change if we remain in, and thanks for cementing my belief that you can't change that which refuses to be changed, if ever there was a time to get out its NOW.

 

The problem is though DTLW that like your earlier post where you talk of those who are on the leave side and "please don't vote for them."

The reality is that Farage whatever he stands for isn't fooling people into voting for him. Most of those who are voting his way aren't racist at all. The problem is that the main parties have just brushed off people's genuine concerns while letting things continue and Farage has given them a voice and something to vote for. If the reds, blues and yellows had not ignored this "protest" element and actually tried to address the issues people spoke of rather than ignore it then Farage would still be that tiny little protest element never to be worried about.

Political parties in the future need to realise that they cannot continually ignore the "plebs" because the "plebs" have votes and I am not sure that a lot of those that have crossed over from the mainstream parties, including all the UKIPers that voted Tory to get the referendum will ever return to the mainstream parties.

It is scary that UKIP got 4m votes even though a lot of those voters they already had voted Tory to get a referendum.

I think a lot of people in this country that aren't right at the bottom struggle to realise just how much an effect migration has had on the lower paid lower skilled classes. A lot of people are insulated from that effect because they don't live in the same communities, they aren't fighting for the same jobs and they only see the benefits of it so it is very easy for the political parties to convince those that are insulated that the "plebs" are shouting about nothing.

The reality is that on the estates people who used to work the land, used to work in factories, used to clean are struggling to get those jobs and Labour's attempts at educating the population out of poverty was an extremely naive idea.

My parents don't understand it because they are insulated from it and of course with them being retired professionals the vast majority of the people they socialise with are insulated too. There has been a new class of sorts created just below the middle classes since the early nineties that are quite comfortable and while they are in reality working class they are not experiencing living in streets alongside Eastern Block migrants and they aren't having to compete for NMW jobs with migrants.

At the bottom it is an unfair dogfight where the Brits struggle to even apply for these jobs and while you can quite rightly state that everybody is having to compete with migrants in the job market (as seen in the IT sector) the scale is nothing like it is at the bottom and no-one is calling unemployed IT workers "lazy Brits" like they are the people that did do the jobs that the political class would like you to believe that the British won't do.

 

Ironically it looks like the last democratic vote they will ever have.

"In the wake of a potential ‘Brexit’ a top French lawyer has demanded that the European Union (EU) “stop sacrificing the European project” and ban referendums."

 

I said on the politics thread a week back I was voting Leave. One of you made an insulting comment about "you lot" and I gave up posting about it. I have found most leave voters to be more open minded than most remainders. Many remainers have treated me like a racist for having done my own research and having decided against big government. However, I have researched hard as I wanted to make the best decision.

What I eventually decided was that the EU is a fundamental **** up which is probably beyond reform (Like FIFA).

So, as I left my house to vote Leave a Turkish neighbour asked me kindly if he could pick some of the leaves of my grape vine, then offered to cook for me. I am no real believer in fate but I suddenly decided to vote Remain. Anyone who thinks the EU isn't a steaming pile of dung probably needs to keep researching, but maybe we'll find another solution. Maybe.

 

Sounds like sour grapes to me......

 

Oh, well if a French lawyer is calling for it then it must be about to happen.

In all seriousness, I get people having these concerns but it's ridiculously tenuous to suggest comments from one random lawyer from one member of an EU nation suggest a change in policy.

 

The grapes really are sour - and 95% pip.

 

You probably made him vote 'out.'

 

Doubt he has the right to vote!

 

If he is Turkish (and not Turkish Cypriot) it is more likely he has British citizenship unless he has come to fill a skills gap.

On the reverse my wife who has been here 12 years has no vote because she is Portuguese.

 

Thanks! I should actually just ask him but I am too British to ask embarrassing / nosy questions!