LEAVE OR REMAIN

Well my maximum qualification is GCSE. ten of them. My wife hasn't got any because she is Portuguese. I'm for leave.

 

Not really my affair, but I think that there are reasonable arguments to be made for y'all leaving the EU. And that there are people who have thought deeply about this and studied their hearts and think it is the right thing to do. So people don't deserve to be called racists just because they support leaving. I think that the left has done a disservice to the country by not taking seriously some of the issues here.

However, Nigel Farage is not one of those reasonable people and neither are his UKIP buddies. And therefore a vote for leaving would be not just a change in England's international status, but shift in the internal politics and direction of the country.

For that reason alone, I'd vote "remain." Start this whole thing over. Get some intelligent, non-xenophobic people to take up the cause, so that I would feel re-assured that I'm not exiting EU for greater autonomy just to put that power in the hands of a bunch of xenophobic pricks. Then we'll see.

Until then, the strongest reason to remain in the EU is the presence of people like Farage and UKIP. If you're going to put idiots like that in charge, then you are not remotely ready to make a go of it on your own. And take in as many immigrants as you can, because they can't be stupider than the people who are already there.

 

I don't know how they managed to get so much, but if it was down to having decent Union representation, then fair play.
I haven't a clue how much my brother in law received, but he's comfortable.

 

I think the Union certainly helped , but Ford ( From what I have heard ) are a good employer , if that makes sense !

 

ISIRTP. The problem is that the cat is out of the bag now and a remain vote is going to strengthen UKIP's vote share and decimate the Labour vote as well as take a whole lot of Tory votes with it. UKIP will become more powerful on a remain vote and will hit 7m+ and maybe even beat the Labour count in 2020.

It is a bit naive to think leave would hand UKIP power. It would hold them where they are on the peripherie.

 

And I have 10 GCSE's, 3 A Levels and a degree. And I'm for leave.

 

What was that US phrase you used the other day...something YOU???

 

I have 12 so I'm smarter than you!!!!!!

But in all seriousness the referendum is bullshit and I'm disappointed it's come down to this, we're not privy to the full details of the EU so we're all making an uninformed decision to an extent. The politicians are paid to make decisions on the running of the country instead of misleading individuals into voting either way, but I guess that's no different to a general election.

 

*cough* and a referees badge *cough*

 

Gucci Mane has hit the nail so hard, he may need a hand lifting the hammer back up.

 

All this stuff about qualifications is a load of rubbish. Back in the day us oldies didn't spend years at college and Uni we went out to work so are we all thick and should be voting leave? I hope people don't genuinely believe this crap.

 

I have a BSc (Hons) and I want to leave. I voted in the original referendum to join a Common Market (as it was called then)....I didn't vote to join another country.

 

The problem I have with that is politicians have a vested interest in staying in. When the highly-paid EU jobs get handed out, politicians are at (or very near) the front of the queue.

 

If politicians had listened to the people instead of labelling them all as idiots over the past decades all of this could have been avoided however the constant dismissal of what people were telling them was happening to them has caused huge resentment.

The constant belittling of people that have genuinely lost their jobs has turned a large section of our country to the point where the small amount of racists and bigots can hide behind a cause.

That is the problem. Blair and Brown promising British jobs for British workers instead of sitting down with the EU and trying to solve an issue that has just become hotter and hotter would have helped (if the EU itself would have listened.)

This matter will not die with a remain vote because a lot of people have been grouped together as racists and bigots and xenophobes for detailing what they are experiencing or have experienced and the answer from the politicians is "they pay in more than they take out" a monetary answer which does not address British people's experiences.

 

In truth I am of the old school. I do know what it was like before we went in, they said it would be the making of this country.
Sorry I cannot see that it has, the economics bandied about before we joined just hasn't come true not even remotely. The free movement of personnel was as far as I remember not part of the deal. Although I am not against immigration we do need to have more control of it though. I also do not like the idea of people making decisions on our future who have not been elected. I value our sovereignty which to me bit by bit we are losing.
So I voted out.

 

I also voted back in the day to join the Common Market, as this made good sense. Ive voted to leave today as i didnt vote back then to join a f..... up corrupt federal Europe. I get very peed off with Remain voters often classing all Leave voters as racists - an over used word these days if ever there was one.

 

I know what you mean, but I can't really agree. Yes, your politicians and our politicians and pretty much politicians all over the world are generally rather horrible people. But at least in the US and UK it's still a democracy. They're not truly doing anything against the will of the voters.

They are merely convenient punching bags for when what the voters want turns out to stupid. Not that I feel bad for most politicians, as they get money and power out of it and they know exactly what they are doing when they manipulate people. Just saying I'm somewhat unsympathetic to the voters as well.

It's the same thing people say here in the US. That because politicians/media/whoever have been controlling the country and not representing the interests of the people, that's why you end up with crazy people like Trump.

But voters are responsible for their own stupidity. People decide they hate politicians, so they vote based on emotion and whoever is the "outsider." Which is bad way to vote. Or they don't vote at all. So.... then they end up with terrible politicians, and this just makes them angrier and more screwed over, and then they vote for even worse people. It's a big loop.

Ultimately, I think for there to be real change the voters have to realize that they aren't powerless. They have the power, they are simply wielding it poorly. That's why they end up with lousy leaders.

 

But the problem they have caused will have bigger implications in the next elections. To garner this referendum victory for either side requires a huge vote. UKIP only need to take 3m off the Tories and 2m off Labour and they will be the largest party (votewise) and they require much less than that extra 5m to turn all those 2nd places into first places.

The Tories and Labour have made a huge mess of this and if a majority of leavers vote UKIP after a remain vote in the next election you will see a UKIP majority. It might sound very far fetched but UKIP do not need that many more votes to win all those second places. That "could" be disastrous.

 

But voters are responsible for their own stupidity. People decide they hate politicians, so they vote based on emotion and whoever is the "outsider." Which is bad way to vote. Or they don't vote at all. So.... then they end up with terrible politicians, and this just makes them angrier and more screwed over, and then they vote for even worse people. It's a big loop.
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We've not had a great pond to pick from this last decade have we. I always find myself liking these Scottish (mp) ladies who put the point across powerfully, but without the bickering you get from the toffs. Why can't we have one of them...........

 

Maybe I have a simplistic view, but for me, our problems didn't start with joining the Common Market/EU. Our problems started with the selling off of so many nationalised industries, for short term gain.
Re-structuring and better management, could have turned many into cash cows for the country, rather than the cash cows they have become for private owners, who relentlessly avoid paying tax, by using seriously flawed tax laws, whilst looking to increase our bills.
I'm sure someone will tell me the error of my ways, so feel free to educate me, if I am way off beam.