Off Topic European Debate Thread

I'm a utilitarian,

https://eurometer.news.sky.com

 

You and me both.

 

Is it good then?

 

Still didn't help though did it
To be honest and bless him but MTG has nearly made my mind up and it's not in his favour. But got to be honest his passion is something to be proud of.

 

in its entirety it is a problem .. but unfortunately it has been thrust upon us an entire thing .. there are numerous stupid things about it .. and most revolve around wrong doers claiming they are being abused .. or committing acts they know will if caught be lenient because they can use the HRA prescedents to get out of or serve a comfy punishment ..

 

jumped a few pages .. where a reply may have possible but basically covered ..

the start of the conundrum was when we joined the "common market" and Maggie admitted as did a load of MP'S at the time what we signed up for was not exactly what we got ... there was a very good programme on the TV about it ..
we seem to have drifted or been guided away from this .. a subtle change every few months/ periods of time, out voted and gone from a "common market to trade freely" to a federalist state where our queen/parliament/lawmakers etc are told what to do and YOU WILL pay us to tell you what you can or cannot do ...

 

I don't see a problem with sovereignty right now (it's no different to our unelected House of Lords) ... Its completely different. The Lords acts as an upper house to Parliament that can alter legislation formulated by a democratically elected government,. It cannot impose, or create laws for other states.

I do see there being a problem in the future with the way it's escalating... And further political
intergration is being proposed, which will only undermine democracy further.

I'm worried that the right-wing will take over politically ... The Conservatives are right wing. Why would being in the EU, alter the political compass of the UK's voters to go for something more radical?

And people love to ignore it, but the EU has done a hell of a lot for us in terms of personal rights and peace. ... What has the EU done for you? For myself it has had a negative affect in my area of employment - social care. Being members of Nato has helped keep peace. The EU's ideas of its own army? Nah. Nato has served Britain well.

 

Most of the fundamental questions asked and debated on here answered...

 

But going by that logic, you could argue that the EU acts as an upper house to our own democratically elected Government. It's an expanded view and it's clutching at straws somewhat but there is relevance.

I think I've heard all I need to hear anyway. Sorting my postal vote soon.

 

Why are people voting by post? That's MTG and you Rob or are you both out the country?
Just curious that's all, I'm going to voting station on the 23rd

 

No logic or relevance in that argument.. The house of Lords gets a final say on laws passed by a democratic government, its a fail safe on really bad laws and in my opinion they overstep their authority on occasion anyway.. The EU is an unelected parliament passing laws that sit above ours that we get no say or input in creating.

 

I would not. Post 694. I would agree with.

 

I'll be at Glasto during the vote.

Well there is in a sense. If you converted that bold bit to 'The EU gets a final say on laws on behalf of a democratic government' then it's very similar and not untrue. Either way, in both the EU and UK law there is an opportunity for unelected people to have the final say, though admittedly it's more prevalent in the former.

I will be voting out anyways regardless.

 

Your continuing to miss the point here Rob.. The EU laws are made by an unelected EU parliament. They aren't the 'final say' they are the 'only say'! and the people don't get to appoint the people deciding those laws.

I though they were having voting booths at Glasto?

 

Got my last 4 exams in the next 4 working days after the referendum. It'll only take half an hour to go and vote but it's just easier to do it in advanced since I was decided