Premier League Thread 2015-16

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
Status
Not open for further replies.
The Telegraph says Johnson is looking at a maximum of two and a half years for what he's admitted and up to 14 years if found guilty of the other charges.

I always find these teenage girl rape cases hard to decide on. A real can of worms. She's 15 so yes, it's illegal. There's a huge range of 15 year olds out there though. Some are very mature, confident and wise to the ways of the world; others are childish, insecure and vulnerable. Obviously the law has to draw an arbitrary line somewhere but it's perfectly possible that a girl of 15 could be more mature than a woman of 18. Without knowing the girl in question (or any real details of what happened) it's difficult to know exactly what to think at this point. No doubt more will be revealed in the coming days and weeks.

As always it's interesting the way different celebrities/people are treated. A lot of people and media outlets were very quiet about David Bowie's fondness for teenage girls when he passed away but are now quite happy to castigate Johnson, which I find interesting. The initial reaction is naturally to say there must be something wrong with him but these sort of relationships seem to be so common (particularly in the entertainment industry) and clearly aren't a new phenomenon so part of me wonders whether this could be considered normal in a hundred years time.
 
davecg69 said:
We seem to simplify everything these days - or is it just me thinking that?
Click to expand...

As a logo the original broke a "rule" of corporate identity design by not being clearly legible at a printed size of 2 x 2cm, this is even smaller now logo's primarily appear in pixels. I too mourn the loss of heraldry.
 
Puck said:
The Telegraph says Johnson is looking at a maximum of two and a half years for what he's admitted and up to 14 years if found guilty of the other charges.

I always find these teenage girl rape cases hard to decide on. A real can of worms. She's 15 so yes, it's illegal. There's a huge range of 15 year olds out there though. Some are very mature, confident and wise to the ways of the world; others are childish, insecure and vulnerable. Obviously the law has to draw an arbitrary line somewhere but it's perfectly possible that a girl of 15 could be more mature than a woman of 18. Without knowing the girl in question (or any real details of what happened) it's difficult to know exactly what to think at this point. No doubt more will be revealed in the coming days and weeks.

As always it's interesting the way different celebrities/people are treated. A lot of people and media outlets were very quiet about David Bowie's fondness for teenage girls when he passed away but are now quite happy to castigate Johnson, which I find interesting. The initial reaction is naturally to say there must be something wrong with him but these sort of relationships seem to be so common (particularly in the entertainment industry) and clearly aren't a new phenomenon so part of me wonders whether this could be considered normal in a hundred years time.
Click to expand...

How old are you Puck?

I can't agree with the sympathetic slant to your post Puck. I understand what you are saying about 'celebrity' and differences in the same aged girls, but your post has a slight belittling of the crime. It is a crime.

Some people can be less effected by drink than others. Does that make it ok if a bigger man who had just eaten his dinner, to drive and kill someone after drinking three beers? Would you find that normal?

Are you a father of a daughter? I am. A 13 year old.

There is no can of worms here. "She looked and acted older/maturer" is not an excuse. It is wrong. This won't be considered normal in 100 years time, we are supposed to be evolving not regressing. It is pretty worrying that someone could even wonder if that would be the case.

The man is an adult, a fully grown man. I'm pretty appalled you could consider it interesting. Sorry.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Missing Lambo, San Tejón and Libby
fatletiss said:
How old are you Puck?

I can't agree with the sympathetic slant to your post Puck. I understand what you are saying about 'celebrity' and differences in the same aged girls, but your post has a slight belittling of the crime. It is a crime.

Some people can be less effected by drink than others. Does that make it ok if a bigger man who had just eaten his dinner, to drive and kill someone after drinking three beers? Would you find that normal?

Are you a father of a daughter? I am. A 13 year old.

There is no can of worms here. "She looked and acted older/maturer" is not an excuse. It is wrong. This won't be considered normal in 100 years time, we are supposed to be evolving not regressing. It is pretty worrying that someone could even wonder if that would be the case.

The man is an adult, a fully grown man. I'm pretty appalled you could consider it interesting. Sorry.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing the two factors which may result in Puck's take on it are, as you mention, 1) being the father of a teenage girl 2) your own age or experience.
I don't think Puck is taking it all lightly, just reflecting the points from his perspective. As an old git who has teenage girls my take is very much yours.

I am aware, for example, some one in their teens / early 20s may feel differently if only because it may be just a couple of years since they were lusting after such a person themselves. I have a vague, pleasent memory of being besotted with a girl who was (I found out) 15yrs old. as I was 16 at the time it didn't feel wrong or pervy, but it would still have been illegal if we'd become involved (no chance she had better taste).

Bottom line is Johnson is grown man, even if his victim appears 'mature' that is no guide to how it may effect her in years to come. Fame gives him even more power (and as spiderman might say) therefore more responsibility. Though not all the details of his case are out there yet there does seem to be an element of grooming involved, all of which would make me a 'hanging judge' I fear.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thebronze14 and fatletiss
greensaint said:
I'm guessing the two factors which may result in Puck's take on it are, as you mention, 1) being the father of a teenage girl 2) your own age or experience.
I don't think Puck is taking it all lightly, just reflecting the points from his perspective. As an old git who has teenage girls my take is very much yours.

I am aware, for example, some one in their teens / early 20s may feel differently if only because it may be just a couple of years since they were lusting after such a person themselves. I have a vague, pleasent memory of being besotted with a girl who was (I found out) 15yrs old. as I was 16 at the time it didn't feel wrong or pervy, but it would still have been illegal if we'd become involved (no chance she had better taste).

Bottom line is Johnson is grown man, even if his victim appears 'mature' that is no guide to how it may effect her in years to come. Fame gives him even more power (and as spiderman might say) therefore more responsibility. Though not all the details of his case are out there yet there does seem to be an element of grooming involved, all of which would make me a 'hanging judge' I fear.
Click to expand...

I agree, which is why I asked Puck's age. He may just have worded it in a way that I received or interpreted it wrongly, which is why I said I could 'understand' some comments. Johnson has admitted one case of sexual activity and one of grooming.
 
It's an incredibly complex issue, particularly as the age of consent differs dramatically across the world, and the rules around punishment, even in the Western world/Europe. Grooming someone who is young and vulnerable is obviously wrong though.
 
The point is surely that the maturity of the girl in question is irrelevant in the eyes of the law. The pertinent fact is that Adam Johnson is an adult and should therefore have known better. My two daughters are now adults themselves but if I had been aware of an older man being around them when either of them was 15 or younger I would not have simply trusted in their maturity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Libby and fatletiss
Maturity is a strange thing to assess. I was considered immature as a teenager because I tended to stay at home and not chase boys....oh, that all teenage girls were like that....but I was studying. Perhaps that may appear immature, but I would call it sensible. Kept me safe and I had the rest of my life to grow up. I would call any young girl who allows herself to be groomed on the internet and meets a much older man and believes his tosh to be immature. The issue here is: did he know her age? Was he stupid or knowingly wicked? The grooming charge would suggest the latter.
 
I don't think this case has anything to do with how mature the girl may or may not be, but more to do with Johnson admitting that he knew she was under age.
That he then chose to groom her, AND indulge in sexual activity, with her, makes him a very dangerous individual.
 
  • Like
Reactions: It’s Only A Game
Puck said:
The Telegraph says Johnson is looking at a maximum of two and a half years for what he's admitted and up to 14 years if found guilty of the other charges.

I always find these teenage girl rape cases hard to decide on. A real can of worms. She's 15 so yes, it's illegal. There's a huge range of 15 year olds out there though. Some are very mature, confident and wise to the ways of the world; others are childish, insecure and vulnerable. Obviously the law has to draw an arbitrary line somewhere but it's perfectly possible that a girl of 15 could be more mature than a woman of 18. Without knowing the girl in question (or any real details of what happened) it's difficult to know exactly what to think at this point. No doubt more will be revealed in the coming days and weeks.

As always it's interesting the way different celebrities/people are treated. A lot of people and media outlets were very quiet about David Bowie's fondness for teenage girls when he passed away but are now quite happy to castigate Johnson, which I find interesting. The initial reaction is naturally to say there must be something wrong with him but these sort of relationships seem to be so common (particularly in the entertainment industry) and clearly aren't a new phenomenon so part of me wonders whether this could be considered normal in a hundred years time.
Click to expand...

Whether or not this young woman was "sexually knowing" (to quote The Who) she needs protection from herself. Personally I have never had a problem with the idea that legal sex takes place between consenting adults. And that consent means informed consent.

There are no grey areas, and yes I too have a daughter and, as it happens, teenage granddaughters but my judgement is not founded on this. It is quite simple, in my view. The actions of this man are wrong. By the same token Chad Evans was in the wrong. Failing to recognise this puts vulnerable young people at risk.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fatletiss
I thought I would see what the Sunderland fans thought of all this and popped over to their forum. It's all been kicking off over there! People being banned and super mods everywhere. I never realised how polite we all are on here until I read some of the threads <laugh>
 
Whiteley Saint said:
I thought I would see what the Sunderland fans thought of all this and popped over to their forum. It's all been kicking off over there! People being banned and super mods everywhere. I never realised how polite we all are on here until I read some of the threads <laugh>
Click to expand...

The Sunderland board is pretty special at the best of times. The best of times, these are not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MountwaySaint
Johnson deserves what he is getting. But what annoys me is the double standards. A older lady having sex with a underage guy is far more likely to get off. There was a female teacher 30+ who slept with a 15yr old pupil. Yet she got off because the judge said the boy encouraged it? I guess it stems from rape still only being defined as penetration,so woman can not actually rape anyone. Still the rules need updating for both times have changed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom
Back