Poyet

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Safc83 said:
He had just come up from League one with Brighton and needed to spend just to put himself on a par with the clubs in that division. You wont find many Brighton fans saying he failed there.

What I meant about Reid is, we went down under him but regrouped and come back stronger for it. If we do go down and I don't think we will then I believe Poyet would be the man to bring us up.

We are never gunna agree, you want him gone yesterday and giving 2 game ultimatums. I'd happily see him at the SOL in August as our manager, no matter what division we are in.
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I would sack him last season after the hull and spurs games. He had one of the biggest budgets in league 1 and the championship pal. He failed sorry.

Of course we not going to agree. Most people won't agree with you on this one. All about opinions tho.
 
Blunham Mackem said:
Think I'd suffer anything to make the season end now, 7 plagues of the Old Testament, nuclear winter, zombie attack, massive meteor impact, you know, nothing too trivial, if that'd end the season right now!

Obviously, as long as no one got hurt! <laugh><laugh>
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Class haha<laugh>
 
Safc83 said:
Yeah I think he is, he's made mistakes and will make some more. He's new to the Premier League but will grow with the experience he's gaining. He's brought a philosophy to the club and seems to be implementing it right throughout the club from youth to first team level, something like this isn't all going to come together over night and will take time. I think I see the bigger picture though and if he keeps bringing in quality like Defoe and can just tweak us a bit more offensively, I don't think we are a million miles away from a sustained period of relative success (high finishes, cup runs).

I didn't see any long term plan or sustainability with Keane, Bruce, MON or Di Canio. I do with Poyet though.
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Have you seen the Under21s fella? When Gus starts implementing that philosophy on the seniors and I might gain a bit more optimism. They keep the ball down and they pass it just as Gus likes. But they're more direct, they move the ball quicker and every player wants the ball and busts a gut to make themselves available for the pass. Our seniors don't do this. Gus is too defensive. It fast looking like McNamee and Stockdale are better at implementing this 'Vision' than Poyet themselves. And it's not like the U21s are walking the league, they have their limitations but they're playing good football, the seniors are not.
 
Funky said:
Have you seen the Under21s fella? When Gus starts implementing that philosophy on the seniors and I might gain a bit more optimism. They keep the ball down and they pass it just as Gus likes. But they're more direct, they move the ball quicker and every player wants the ball and busts a gut to make themselves available for the pass. Our seniors don't do this. Gus is too defensive. It fast looking like McNamee and Stockdale are better at implementing this 'Vision' than Poyet themselves. And it's not like the U21s are walking the league, they have their limitations but they're playing good football, the seniors are not.
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I seen enough at Hartlepool to know how good they are and I agree with every word about moving the ball quicker and making themselves available.

I still think Gus will have the first team playing like this once he's got the right personnel in. I'm willing to wait at least another 18 months to see where he takes us. His signings haven't been spectacular but Defoe is definitely a step in the right direction. I know I'm not giving many reasons, it's just a feeling I've got that it will come right for us under Gus.
 
Safc83 said:
I seen enough at Hartlepool to know how good they are and I agree with every word about moving the ball quicker and making themselves available.

I still think Gus will have the first team playing like this once he's got the right personnel in. I'm willing to wait at least another 18 months to see where he takes us. His signings haven't been spectacular but Defoe is definitely a step in the right direction. I know I'm not giving many reasons, it's just a feeling I've got that it will come right for us under Gus.
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Well I'm trying to put aside my obvious dislike for him as a person and trying to weigh up his tactical frailties and media handling with all the other things he we need to consider like transfer backing, time to install his own team, giving him time to do it.

I wouldn't be to disappointed if he was sacked to be honest providing the right man was available. But I don't want keep going round in circles with average managers so it's not as simple as just sack him for me, I'll allow him time. But I need to see things change on the pitch and fast, starting Tueday infact. It's no so much results but him setting up the team to actually give us the chance to stay up. At the moment not only are we at risk of going down, we're at risk of going down with a whimper which is unacceptable. If we go down I want to go down fighting. I'm not seeing any fight fella. At all.

I'm on the fence swaying from side to side, but I can't pretend I'm happy with him. Not by a long shot.
 
grimsby mackem said:
Fat Sam might not be the worst appointment, he may well be able to turn Wickham into the target man he's got the potential to be and build a team around that, the problem is would he want to come and if so would he come straight away? Beyond that I don't see any other obvious long term solutions so we'd be looking at another short term fix to get us out of trouble again, it might be worth getting Kevin Ball as caretaker until the summer and then find someone to take us forward then, that way we'd get committed performances, a possible lift from a new manager and we'd have time to find the right man for the job.
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Sweet jesus. Kevin ****ing Ball I depair. Lets take a look at the stats when Super Kevin Ball has been handed the reigns. Those blood and guts performances he brings really reap rewards

P.13 W.2 D.2 L.9 (15% win rate)
 
The Ultimate Mackem said:
I would sack him last season after the hull and spurs games. He had one of the biggest budgets in league 1 and the championship pal. He failed sorry.

Of course we not going to agree. Most people won't agree with you on this one. All about opinions tho.
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So before we went to man city and drew beat chelsea and Man utd away and West brom and cardiff at home and ended the season brilliantly. Canny!
 
Blunham Mackem said:
You're worried about 2and 4 goal differences with 12 or 13 games to go?

Burnley go down against Chelsea and, I think Man City. They don't buckle under. They go for it and get the point. Points are better than goal difference in my book.

I'm just sick of all this bloody cautiousness!
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Remind me how we played against Chelsea and Man CIty this season?

Draw with Chelsea in a cracking performance that, on another day, We'd have won but for good keeping and poor finishing. Man City bup here were awesome - but at their place we came back to 2-2 from 2-0 down and lost it at the death - fighting performance - OK a loss but a fighting one where we did what we could to try to get something from the game. We are STILL the only team in any competition to stop Chelsea scoring this season!
 
Maybe the problem isn't poyet then maybe its the players attitude. If the u21s are doing wot gus wants and look good doing it maybe we have problems with our first team squad they have seen a few managers out the door recently. The likes of oshea brown fletcher have to go in the summer regardless of who the manager is. If gus isn't happy with certain players drop them no matter who they are and bring some youngsters into the side. At least they might show some fight we have an average age of 29 too many older heads with attitude.
 
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rokerparks scoreboard said:
Maybe the problem isn't poyet then maybe its the players attitude. If the u21s are doing wot gus wants and look good doing it maybe we have problems with our first team squad they have seen a few managers out the door recently. The likes of oshea brown fletcher have to go in the summer regardless of who the manager is. If gus isn't happy with certain players drop them no matter who they are and bring some youngsters into the side. At least they might show some fight we have an average age of 29 too many older heads with attitude.
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Could be, or maybe Stockdale has them playing at a higher tempo. Maybe Stockdale understands there's no point in developing kids to play at a slower pace than the football will be played throughout their entire career. Gus has stated he likes it patient and made it clear he doesn't like quick direct football. Both styles are still possession based and aim to keep the ball on the deck, just the U21's are quicker and more direct. Going off Poyet's own comments I'm convinced it's him who has us playing this pace.
 
Poyet needs to take a leaf out of stockdales book then. The english game has always been fast paced and for someone who has played at the very top in england poyet should know this. Im all for the possession game just move it quicker and get forward if a lobg balls on use it
 
rokerparks scoreboard said:
Poyet needs to take a leaf out of stockdales book then. The english game has always been fast paced and for someone who has played at the very top in england poyet should know this. Im all for the possession game just move it quicker and get forward if a lobg balls on use it
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Agreed fella. Mind you, Only if the long ball is on. JoS with his long balls to Defoe is a joke, that's not Poyet imo, no way, it's just our captain panicking.
 
Funky said:
Could be, or maybe Stockdale has them playing at a higher tempo. Maybe Stockdale understands there's no point in developing kids to play at a slower pace than the football will be played throughout their entire career. Gus has stated he likes it patient and made it clear he doesn't like quick direct football. Both styles are still possession based and aim to keep the ball on the deck, just the U21's are quicker and more direct. Going off Poyet's own comments I'm convinced it's him who has us playing this pace.
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Patient doesn't necessarily mean "slow" though. It means wait for the chance but do it when it comes - we don't do that though!!

It's no good moving the ball forward quickly when we have no-one up there supporting the forward(s) but get it into midfield and get them going forward with it will create space for the others! Just wish it would happen!! Tomorrow night would be a nice start but, as per the usual, I have zilch expectations
 
DAPARKERSAFC said:
Sweet jesus. Kevin ****ing Ball I depair. Lets take a look at the stats when Super Kevin Ball has been handed the reigns. Those blood and guts performances he brings really reap rewards

P.13 W.2 D.2 L.9 (15% win rate)
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Look at it in context mate, ten of those games was in our record low points season with him having to play a team with the footballing visionaries of John Stead, Nyron Nosworthy and Kelvin Davis being a key part of the team. Put simply Ball was on a hiding to nothing taking over that team and getting that team to get 5 points from 10 games was a better rate of points per game than was achieved before he took over, it's not a record to be proud of but not a one that you can blame him for either. And as for his second spell the two defeats were to Liverpool and Man United so again he's hardly let himself down as far as I can see.

I'm not saying Ball would be an ideal solution if get get rid of Poyet but I'd much rather see us take out time and get the right man for the job long term and making do with someone like Ball as caretaker until the end of the season. And if nothing else if Ball were to come in at least we'd have something to cheer about watching some blood and guts performances we might even try to win a game or two
 
marcusblackcat said:
Patient doesn't necessarily mean "slow" though. It means wait for the chance but do it when it comes - we don't do that though!!

It's no good moving the ball forward quickly when we have no-one up there supporting the forward(s) but get it into midfield and get them going forward with it will create space for the others! Just wish it would happen!! Tomorrow night would be a nice start but, as per the usual, I have zilch expectations
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True but I have no doubt in my mind Gus likes to slow the game to a snails place. He clearly would like the league to be much slower than it is in his ideal world. He doesn't set us up to attack space at all, the players don't move to make themselves available. They just stand there, often flat footed. It's not that much a technical demand to move off the ball(it is for strikers) it's just shifting into space to create a passing angle. It requires fitness to keep moving and a bit of desire to want to receive the ball. This message should be getting across if it is what Gus wants.

I disagree mate, we can move the ball quicker whilst working it into the box gradually, I want us more direct but not that direct. Just want everyone on their toes, making themselves available and to attack space when it opens up.

Ultimately, for me, if he's not asking them to do these things then it's Gus' fault, if he is and the player won't do it then he may have lost the dressing room, if he's asking them to do it but they just can't pass it at that pace or have the composure then he needs to scrap it. It's all down to Gus anyway i look at it.
 
grimsby mackem said:
Look at it in context mate, ten of those games was in our record low points season with him having to play a team with the footballing visionaries of John Stead, Nyron Nosworthy and Kelvin Davis being a key part of the team. Put simply Ball was on a hiding to nothing taking over that team and getting that team to get 5 points from 10 games was a better rate of points per game than was achieved before he took over, it's not a record to be proud of but not a one that you can blame him for either. And as for his second spell the two defeats were to Liverpool and Man United so again he's hardly let himself down as far as I can see.

I'm not saying Ball would be an ideal solution if get get rid of Poyet but I'd much rather see us take out time and get the right man for the job long term and making do with someone like Ball as caretaker until the end of the season. And if nothing else if Ball were to come in at least we'd have something to cheer about watching some blood and guts performances we might even try to win a game or two
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in the 2013/2014 season Ball lost to Liverpool and Man U, but the team played well in those 2 games. Shame we can't loan him out to manage a lower league team and see how he does before bringing him back :D

I wouldnt get rid of Poyet now though, all the managers since Keane bought us back up have had crap 2nd seasons. We'd go through all of this again no matter who we brought in IMO
 
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