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There are a number of issues that a representative fan's group, which is what CTWD should be looking to become, could have said about the eviction of E1 to E3 to the North Stand. First, that the club should have consulted those affected and hopefully will do so if other moves are considered in the future.

Second, they could have asked those remaining in E4/E5 what they wanted to do as they were suddenly thrust from being 4 blocks and a wall away from the opposition fans to being right next to them and helped make arrangements for those that wanted to move.

Third, they could have asked the club to allow season ticket holders in N5.

Fourth, they could have asked the club to make arrangements, and publicise them, for those fans who wanted to stay together to do so.

Finally, they could have acted as a means of communication between the fans and the club to arrange alternative seats for those who didn't fancy a move to the North Stand.

I think that this is what DMD means, but I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong.
 
The Police have the potential to really ruin Thursday. They know it, and I think they like it.

I hope they let the Belgians roam around at their will, so they can experience Hull, and not just one side of a Wetherspoons in Hull.
 
The way it was handled was obviously very poor, but the information came out so late, that it was really too late to do much about it. Those being forced to relocate were only given a matter of days to get their new seats sorted and it didn't become clear about N5 not being for season ticket holders until we were well into that process(and there's still been no reason given for this).

N5 should be for season ticket holders and hopefully this will be addressed for next season, they're obviously not going to be able to change it this season. Hopefully, lessons have been learned and the new fan group will at least be given advance information of what is planned so these sort of issues can be avoided in the future.
 
Party Hull! said:
The Police have the potential to really ruin Thursday. They know it, and I think they like it.

I hope they let the Belgians roam around at their will, so they can experience Hull, and not just one side of a Wetherspoons in Hull.
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This from CTWD: http://notohulltigers.tumblr.com/post/95757572556/ctwd-ask-humberside-police-for-europa-league-calm?

"City Till We Die ask that the Europa League Play-off round game between Hull City and Lokeren on Thursday is policed sensibly. Mistakes made by the Belgian police after the first leg should not be repeated and genuine Lokeren fans should not be subjected to an inappropriate police response."
 
Dr.Stanley O'Google said:
This from CTWD: http://notohulltigers.tumblr.com/post/95757572556/ctwd-ask-humberside-police-for-europa-league-calm?

"City Till We Die ask that the Europa League Play-off round game between Hull City and Lokeren on Thursday is policed sensibly. Mistakes made by the Belgian police after the first leg should not be repeated and genuine Lokeren fans should not be subjected to an inappropriate police response."
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I know I just read that. That's why I said it.

I think it depends on their mood. Good mood, they'll be fair to people. Bad mood, and they'll throw their weight around.
 
Dr.Stanley O'Google said:
This from CTWD: http://notohulltigers.tumblr.com/post/95757572556/ctwd-ask-humberside-police-for-europa-league-calm?

"City Till We Die ask that the Europa League Play-off round game between Hull City and Lokeren on Thursday is policed sensibly. Mistakes made by the Belgian police after the first leg should not be repeated and genuine Lokeren fans should not be subjected to an inappropriate police response."
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Well done, hope Police will use common sense on Thursday, so far +1.300 Lokeren fans will make the trip, and all of them are disgusted that the sc*mheads last week ruined it for everybody at HCAFC & KSCL.
 
originallambrettaman said:
The way it was handled was obviously very poor, but the information came out so late, that it was really too late to do much about it. Those being forced to relocate were only given a matter of days to get their new seats sorted and it didn't become clear about N5 not being for season ticket holders until we were well into that process(and there's still been no reason given for this).

N5 should be for season ticket holders and hopefully this will be addressed for next season, they're obviously not going to be able to change it this season. Hopefully, lessons have been learned and the new fan group will at least be given advance information of what is planned so these sort of issues can be avoided in the future.
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That's very misleading to say the least.

Some DID get season tickets in N5 THIS season, and others spoke to the club individually and had time to sort things better. A collective group could have achieved far more.

As Oba metioned, there was plenty a fans group could still have done, even if it was only to show a tiny bit of support for the people they're supposed to represent.
 
originallambrettaman said:
Dutch thinks we're only doing all this because we want our egos massaged.

The nonsense about us not doing anything at the moment, is because I told him we were meeting to finalise our short and long term aims and we'd be publishing them on our new website in due course.

For the benefit of those who are interested, the short and long term aims have been prepared and will be put up for consultation with our members soon, once we can get the bloody bugs out of our new website.
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How rude and wrong.

I'm critical of CTWD and you for doing nothing to help the fans you're supposed to represent. Your ego's a separate issue.

You came out with various excuses for why CTWD could't get involved, most if not all have been shown for what they are, especially as nothing's been declared as changed, yet CTWD publish something that actually affects less City fans.

Individuals sorted themselves out, getting passes in N5 and moves to other parts of the stadium. Who knows how much else could have been achieved as a collective?


Frankly, CTWD need to learn from the mistakes made over this mess. They're running on the good will from the single issue name change, but are looking more dictatorial and less approachable than the club at the minute.
 
originallambrettaman said:
The way it was handled was obviously very poor, but the information came out so late, that it was really too late to do much about it. Those being forced to relocate were only given a matter of days to get their new seats sorted and it didn't become clear about N5 not being for season ticket holders until we were well into that process(and there's still been no reason given for this).

N5 should be for season ticket holders and hopefully this will be addressed for next season, they're obviously not going to be able to change it this season. Hopefully, lessons have been learned and the new fan group will at least be given advance information of what is planned so these sort of issues can be avoided in the future.
Click to expand...

That's not entirely true is it. You were representing the fans at a meeting a considerable time before it happened but you were more interested in abusing your position to push your own agenda when you should have thought, there on the spot in a matter of seconds, of all the implications it could have caused for the countless amount of fans it's upset who now haven't renewed because of your failure.

You should have known that the club would push it through so late on and so quickly once it was in motion that there would be no consultation with the supporters it affected and pushed the club to start consulting the fans immediately.
 
pazke70 said:
Well done, hope Police will use common sense on Thursday, so far +1.300 Lokeren fans will make the trip, and all of them are disgusted that the sc*mheads last week ruined it for everybody at HCAFC & KSCL.
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We can only hope pazke70, but everyone that went has a very high opinion of Lokeren fans and I'm sure will do as much as we can to help make you feel as welcome as we did for all but that incident by a tiny, unrepresentative group.
 
Mr. Hat said:
That's not entirely true is it. You were representing the fans at a meeting a considerable time before it happened but you were more interested in abusing your position to push your own agenda when you should have thought, there on the spot in a matter of seconds, of all the implications it could have caused for the countless amount of fans it's upset who now haven't renewed because of your failure.

You should have known that the club would push it through so late on and so quickly once it was in motion that there would be no consultation with the supporters it affected and pushed the club to start consulting the fans immediately.
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I know, what a **** fan I am, I feel really bad now.
 
Obadiah said:
There are a number of issues that a representative fan's group, which is what CTWD should be looking to become, could have said about the eviction of E1 to E3 to the North Stand. First, that the club should have consulted those affected and hopefully will do so if other moves are considered in the future.

Second, they could have asked those remaining in E4/E5 what they wanted to do as they were suddenly thrust from being 4 blocks and a wall away from the opposition fans to being right next to them and helped make arrangements for those that wanted to move.

Third, they could have asked the club to allow season ticket holders in N5.

Fourth, they could have asked the club to make arrangements, and publicise them, for those fans who wanted to stay together to do so.

Finally, they could have acted as a means of communication between the fans and the club to arrange alternative seats for those who didn't fancy a move to the North Stand.

I think that this is what DMD means, but I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong.
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Apart from some getting season tickets in N5 THIS season, I'd agree with that.

What I'd add is that the many reasons offered for CTWD not getting involved still exist, yet they've managed to comment on the Lokeren issue.

I'd be interested to know when CTWD met to decide to do nothing about the stand move and something about Lokeren, and how they determined it's what the membership (ie CTWD) wanted.

The fact they've made no comment at all about the stand move, we've just had representatives getting prickly and abusive as well as dismissive, doesn't auger well for the future.
 
I can understand the frustration felt by those affected by the move, but I believe that moving the responsibility for its implementation from the club to any of the fan groups is unnecessary and simply masks the true problem - respect from the club for its customers.

The poor timing of the move and the (deliberately? ) very short notice given to some supporters was evident in numerous posts here and elsewhere; none of us can be sure, but, perhaps, the individuals achieved more than any collective would or could have done.

Considering that CTWD was then and is only now in the process of evolving from a single issue group, did they have a mandate to speak out? Some would say yes (are they all members?), some would say no, but who is to really say? I am a member who supported the formation of CTWD to fight the name-change, I am still undecided about their proposed development and, as i think it is important not to be drawn into fights unnecessarily, I preferred the stance they took.

I think the club were both crass and deliberate in how they treated their customers and their ongoing strategy of divide and conquer seems to taking a grip.
 
Fez said:
I can understand the frustration felt by those affected by the move, but I believe that moving the responsibility for its implementation from the club to any of the fan groups is unnecessary and simply masks the true problem - respect from the club for its customers.

The poor timing of the move and the (deliberately? ) very short notice given to some supporters was evident in numerous posts here and elsewhere; none of us can be sure, but, perhaps, the individuals achieved more than any collective would or could have done.

Considering that CTWD was then and is only now in the process of evolving from a single issue group, did they have a mandate to speak out? Some would say yes (are they all members?), some would say no, but who is to really say? I am a member who supported the formation of CTWD to fight the name-change, I am still undecided about their proposed development and, as i think it is important not to be drawn into fights unnecessarily, I preferred the stance they took.

I think the club were both crass and deliberate in how they treated their customers and their ongoing strategy of divide and conquer seems to taking a grip.
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I don't necessarily agree, but I can see where you're coming from.

CTWD have the same mandate now that they had way back when the planning application went in, yet there's a comment on Lokeren, but there's been worse than silence on the stand move. The club can't be blamed for that.

It didn't have to be a fight, quite a few individuals have built up their own links with the club that have helped on other issues. A collective could well have grown from getting involved.
 
Hull City AFC (DMD) said:
I don't necessarily agree, but I can see where you're coming from.

CTWD have the same mandate now that they had way back when the planning application went in, yet there's a comment on Lokeren, but there's been worse than silence on the stand move. The club can't be blamed for that.

It didn't have to be a fight, quite a few individuals have built up their own links with the club that have helped on other issues. A collective could well have grown from getting involved.
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I'm trying to take a neutral view of this, as as the implications of the seat changes did not and do not affect me, but I certainly sympathise with anyone who came away dissatisfied with the move.

Like I said, the key distress communicated by most came across as a feeling of helplessness due to the time-frames involved. I don't know about all of the fan groups, but I do know that CTWD is committee led and, I would guess that collective experienced the same time-frame difficulties as everyone else (in truth they are a part of 'everyone else'.). I think it was clear the seat-move was a poorly though out shambles or a well planned work of heavy-handed abuse - not all will agree on which one applies. Many had made it clear that CTWD needed to build bridges with the club and I would think that any changes that they considered they could make would be negligible, so they kept their powder dry.

They now have a new committee and structure, they also have more time, so when you consider their statement, regarding Lokeren, I would guess they have had an opportunity to agree what to issue. It's also more in line with the club's thinking (I hope) and directed at the police force; which might help in growing the seed of consultation we are starting to see. I just hope that consultation is not a double-edged sword.

Not everything is or can be back and white, so perhaps the cutting of a little slack might be beneficial. To all.
 
Fez said:
I'm trying to take a neutral view of this, as as the implications of the seat changes did not and do not affect me, but I certainly sympathise with anyone who came away dissatisfied with the move.

Like I said, the key distress communicated by most came across as a feeling of helplessness due to the time-frames involved. I don't know about all of the fan groups, but I do know that CTWD is committee led and, I would guess that collective experienced the same time-frame difficulties as everyone else (in truth they are a part of 'everyone else'.). I think it was clear the seat-move was a poorly though out shambles or a well planned work of heavy-handed abuse - not all will agree on which one applies. Many had made it clear that CTWD needed to build bridges with the club and I would think that any changes that they considered they could make would be negligible, so they kept their powder dry.

They now have a new committee and structure, they also have more time, so when you consider their statement, regarding Lokeren, I would guess they have had an opportunity to agree what to issue. It's also more in line with the club's thinking (I hope) and directed at the police force; which might help in growing the seed of consultation we are starting to see. I just hope that consultation is not a double-edged sword.

Not everything is or can be back and white, so perhaps the cutting of a little slack might be beneficial. To all.
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I'm more than happy to cut slack. The problem is that representatives of the fans group posting on here have been dismissive and in denial of the issues and abusive towards members. Individuals have achieved things these reps said were impossible. We were told CTWD didn't exist for such issues, yet now, with no other change they do.

Arrogance and agenda's was part of the reason FLAG got pulled. Had it not, there is the possibility fans could have had more input into the stand move.

There's a big danger of the tail wagging the dog.
 
Fez said:
I'm trying to take a neutral view of this, as as the implications of the seat changes did not and do not affect me, but I certainly sympathise with anyone who came away dissatisfied with the move.

Like I said, the key distress communicated by most came across as a feeling of helplessness due to the time-frames involved. I don't know about all of the fan groups, but I do know that CTWD is committee led and, I would guess that collective experienced the same time-frame difficulties as everyone else (in truth they are a part of 'everyone else'.). I think it was clear the seat-move was a poorly though out shambles or a well planned work of heavy-handed abuse - not all will agree on which one applies. Many had made it clear that CTWD needed to build bridges with the club and I would think that any changes that they considered they could make would be negligible, so they kept their powder dry.

They now have a new committee and structure, they also have more time, so when you consider their statement, regarding Lokeren, I would guess they have had an opportunity to agree what to issue. It's also more in line with the club's thinking (I hope) and directed at the police force; which might help in growing the seed of consultation we are starting to see. I just hope that consultation is not a double-edged sword.

Not everything is or can be back and white, so perhaps the cutting of a little slack might be beneficial. To all.
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Very well put.

The committee met for three hours on Sunday, ahead of the Stoke game, our aims are now set and will be announced shortly(once we get our fancy new website to work). The decision to issue a statement re the Lokeren game was taken at the meeting and we'll be addressing any issues that affect City fans from now on, it just took us a while to get the acceptance of a wider remit from our members and to get the new committee set up. These things are never straight forward, three members have already left, including the tech guy(hence the website delay) and we simply weren't ready to get involved in other issues until now.

I've always attempted to be clear about where we were and the reasons for any perceived inaction, but unfortunately my explanations have not been accepted by some and have just been met with all sorts of daft accusations. There's little I can do about that, but hopefully over the next next month, people will be able to read what we propose, comment on our aims and we'll be able to move forward.
 
originallambrettaman said:
Very well put.

The committee met for three hours on Sunday, ahead of the Stoke game, our aims are now set and will be announced shortly(once we get our fancy new website to work). The decision to issue a statement re the Lokeren game was taken at the meeting and we'll be addressing any issues that affect City fans from now on, it just took us a while to get the acceptance of a wider remit from our members and to get the new committee set up. These things are never straight forward, three members have already left, including the tech guy(hence the website delay) and we simply weren't ready to get involved in other issues until now.

I've always attempted to be clear about where we were and the reasons for any perceived inaction, but unfortunately my explanations have not been accepted by some and have just been met with all sorts of daft accusations. There's little I can do about that, but hopefully over the next next month, people will be able to read what we propose, comment on our aims and we'll be able to move forward.
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You were dismissive of the problem, rude and abusive as well as offering conflicting reasons for the lack of action from the fans group.

CTWD fell well short on this one. To continue to hide from that fact builds problems for the future.
 
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